Great job to Campbell county on winning. The tournament ran smooth as usual. There were some great matches.

Who was second and third

CC had a very nice team.

Too many forfeits throughout. Perhaps the weight classes could remain the same for

tournaments, but 168 and 190 combined and replaced by 175 for duals? Seems most teams forfeited at least one if those weights. Fine line between maximizing numbers and ensuring a competitive endeavor.

Where were the missing teams?

1st. Campbell county

2nd. North oldham

3rd. Twenhofel

4th. Walton verona

Looks like NKY is getting stronger. Every region better take notice and step it up!!

Nka- why would we change weight classes for duals? Seems like an odd thing to do. Weight classes are weight classes. The forfeits are a function of a couple things. We had a few teams filling in for district and region champs who are not full lineups. Another issue is the timing. After some kids lose at district or region they consider their season over and stop showing up. That creates a few more holes on many teams.

I will post full results later tonight. A lot of great wrestling. Two things that stood out to me were:

1) the energy and excitement in the gym; this is always the most intense and exciting event of the year

2) i am starting the campaign for Kyle Goldsmith as coach of the year. He has done a masterful job with a team that lost a lot of kids after last year and have come back even better.

I will post full results later tonight. A lot of great wrestling. Two things that stood out to me were:

1) the energy and excitement in the gym; this is always the most intense and exciting event of the year

2) i am starting the campaign for Kyle Goldsmith as coach of the year. He has done a masterful job with a team that lost a lot of kids after last year and have come back even better.

Is Kyle north oldhams coach? If so I agree he has done a heck of a job.

I agree kyle has done an outstanding job with North Oldham. The intensity for the finals was amazing. That had to have been the loudest crowd I had ever heard cheering for their teams. It was awesome.

I also got to witness some tough kids wrestle. Ranger you might have to add some names to your rankings. There were a few kids that I had never seen wrestle that we're impressive. I hope state has the same intensity next week. Great job to all the coaches and kids that worked so hard this year.

Sounds like it was a great tournament.

Please send the full results.

It is great that North Oldham has turned around a program that lost a bunch of kids from last year. Didn't North Hardin lose a bunch from last year as well.

What other teams lost a bunch of kids from last year that has returned strong this year?

Who was there?  I hope the Bearcats came through without any injuries.

I agree Campbell County did a great job running the tournament.

The competition was awesome and the crowds were intense. Very exciting day.

I also agree that Kyle Goldsmith has done a very good job with his kids this year.

No injuries for the Bearcats. All the kids look good and are ready for a good showing at the State Tournament.

Round 1

Woodford co. 34 Walton 54

North oldham 46 Turkeyfoot 31

Twenhofel 64 Moore 15

Campbell co 51 River city 27

Round 2

Woodford co 25 Shamrock 42

Walton 30 North oldham 40

Twenhofel 63 Mcnabb 15

Campbell co 55 Moore 27

Round 3

Turkeyfoot 50 Shamrock 24

Woodford co 26 North oldham 57

River city 62 Mcnabb 15

Campbell co 53 Twenhofel 18

Round 4

Walton 54 Turkeyfoot 28

North oldham 51 Shamrock 32

River city 66 Moore 12

Campbell co 57 Mcnabb 25

Round 5

Walton 38 Shamrock 36

Woodford co 30 Turkeyfoot 60

River city 35 twenhofel 38

Moore 52 Mcnabb 60

Placement round

Championship

Campbell co 35 North oldham 34

3rd/4th

Twenhofel over Walton (don't have score)

5th/6th

River city 51 Turkeyfoot 27

7th/8th

Shamrock 36 Mcnabb 27

9th/10th

Woodford co 66 Moore 45

True second

North oldham 42 Twenhofel 32

Nka- why would we change weight classes for duals? Seems like an odd thing to do. Weight classes are weight classes. The forfeits are a function of a couple things. We had a few teams filling in for district and region champs who are not full lineups. Another issue is the timing. After some kids lose at district or region they consider their season over and stop showing up. That creates a few more holes on many teams.

Good points. Perhaps the timing could be changed? There were some excellent teams not present just from the Louisville area alone (East Oldham, Fern Creek).

My point is that if this is to be a state championship let's maximize the competition. Can't do that when 3/4 of the teams there are forfeiting 5-6 weights.

Also, how many matches did North and Twenhoefel wrestle? I counted six, which would be a NFHS rules contradiction wouldn't it?

We talked a little yesterday in the coaches meeting about how to encourage teams to participate either through carrots or sticks. Trust me I spent many hrs on the phone and email contacting as many coaches as possible but you can't make teams participate. I guess they didn't want to challenge for a dual title.

As far as forfeits go those numbers are a bit off. I'll check the weigh in sheets but no way there were that many holes. Also with teams dropping out there were a couple teams that stepped up and filled in. Those were teams who weren't the strongest dual teams but they showed up.

Yes north and twenhofel wrestled 6 matches. But KSWA sanctioned events follow USA wrestling rules, so no 5 match limit.

Thanks to Campbell Co for hosting a well run day of wrestling.

Watching the fans get loud during the finals was very exciting!

35 34 , classic great dual score !!!

To close the thought on forfeits, I just reviewed the weigh-in sheets and the dual results and here is what we had:

 

avg # forfeits per team = 2.4

# teams with 0 forfeits = 3

# teams with 1 forfeits = 3

# teams with 5/6 forfeits = 2

 

Moore and McNabb did not come up to win a state dual title.  They did not automatically qualify, nor were they voted in.  They were selected by the board to fill voids when other teams declined their invitation.  Their kids got the opportunity to get on the mat in an amazing environment and face many kids who will be in their bracket this weekend battling for an individual state title. Definitely worth the trip in my mind.

Is there any type of repercussions for teams that decline to come? And wouldn't it be up to each Region to deside who will represent them in case of someone not wanting to participate?

At this point there are no repercussions.  District winners automatically qualify.  If one of those teams decline then we go to the runner up.  Then each region selects one at large team.  Region 1 and Region 4 essentially had no teams interested (outside of John Hardin and Woodford).  At that point the board works to fill the spots.

So, you don't think some of the better teams decide to be no shows so they don't see a competitor until state?  Or is getting hurt, don't like the long drive, spend the gas money just excuses for again dodging an opponent.

 

Qualifying for state duals should be considered an honor and an honor worth fulfilling.  I would think a team not showing up should be banned the following year from being able to attend.  If not then it's just another tournament.

Ranger,

Thanks for the surprise invite.  We enjoyed the day.  Loved the finals dual. Congrats on that.  

There should be clear(er) guidelines as to who qualifies and consequences for qualified teams/regions not attending. 

Gotta agree with stanmms. There needs to be a punishment of sorts for qualifying teams that don't show up. I honestly look forward to the State Duals just as much as the State tournament. For the teams that filled in, congrats on stepping up to the challenge when quote unquote better teams didn't show. You have my respect!

So, you don't think some of the better teams decide to be no shows so they don't see a competitor until state?  Or is getting hurt, don't like the long drive, spend the gas money just excuses for again dodging an opponent.

 

Qualifying for state duals should be considered an honor and an honor worth fulfilling.  I would think a team not showing up should be banned the following year from being able to attend.  If not then it's just another tournament.

I think teams decide to not participate for a number of reasons.  Most of which are justifiable (injuries, travel cost for back to back weekends, avoiding injuries, etc).  While I would like to see every qualified team participate, coaches have to make the best decision for their team.  I believe there will be a lot of discussion this spring and fall regarding state duals to make sure we are able to build upon the amazing spectacle we saw this weekend and improve on the shortfalls.

So dodging competition isn't a justifiable reason.   Thanks for clarifying that.

Ranger what are your suggestions on how to get the better teams to show up?

In my mind dodging competition is not justifiable, but i can't imagine any coach will stand up and admit that is their reason for not showing.

 

The coaches talked about a few ideas on Saturday, from the positive end considering location and timing to the punitive end considering financial penalties and possibly impacting future eligibility.  We need to hear from more folks on the idea so hopefully we see a bunch of coaches this spring to get the discussion flowing.

For Johnson County Middle School cost was one of the major issues, Also, we had 4 involved in the high school state duals,

For Johnson County Middle School cost was one of the major issues, Also, we had 4 involved in the high school state duals,

Its difficult and expensive to travel four and a half hours to destinations such as CC one weekend and then turning  around and driving four hours and sixteen minutes to Mt. Sterling the next weekend. JMO.

 

I hope the powers that be will take this into consideration prior to banning a team from future state duals.

I think teams decide to not participate for a number of reasons. Most of which are justifiable (injuries, travel cost for back to back weekends, avoiding injuries, etc). While I would like to see every qualified team participate, coaches have to make the best decision for their team. I believe there will be a lot of discussion this spring and fall regarding state duals to make sure we are able to build upon the amazing spectacle we saw this weekend and improve on the shortfalls.

Soooo what if a team is travelling waaaaaaaay further on the same day as duals to a not as tough dual out of state ??????? lol

What if we centralized the location. Maybe the Civic Center in Frankfort?

Don't change the location. Every year it rotates. This is the way it's been done for years and should stay this way. If a team doesn't want to come that is their deal, but I will say from experience it’s a great atmosphere and something that is really great for the kids to experience. Many years ago we went as filler in at Ryle and finished 2nd to last and our kids loved it. We loved the competition and the environment. I think Pioneer_Pride is talking about us in his story on another board lol. I've backed out of tournaments before so I understand why teams do it; it is just unfortunate it has to happen at state duals.

Don't change the location. Every year it rotates. This is the way it's been done for years and should stay this way. If a team doesn't want to come that is their deal, but I will say from experience it’s a great atmosphere and something that is really great for the kids to experience. Many years ago we went as filler in at Ryle and finished 2nd to last and our kids loved it. We loved the competition and the environment. I think Pioneer_Pride is talking about us in his story on another board lol. I've backed out of tournaments before so I understand why teams do it; it is just unfortunate it has to happen at state duals.

I remember that team with the jones brothers, watson and Lee I believe. That was a tough squad. I believe at least one team has opted out of the state tournament every year. Cost is typically the major factor. However it sounds like stanmms is willing to cover all expenses so we can implement a sanction policy. In that case I'm all for it.

Mpire- lol. I think you are on the wrong thread. Tell you what, if CC beats Wadsworth in a dual, I'll do what I can to get Ryle to change their mind about state duals.

No Lee but we did have Watson both Jones brothers and the Moore brothers. Actually we had a decent squad and finished 2nd in club that year( it was a really weak club division that year). What I'm getting at is that I LOVE state duals an think it is awesome for our state. I don't think Ohio has state duals at the middle school level it's so unique to Kentucky.

While I see why some would cancel I would ask those coaches why not fundraiser for the event? That team also had Wolnitzek and we ran a fundraiser for extra money that week and state. A big ole candy sale helped us to get the money needed for those tournament.

No Lee but we did have Watson both Jones brothers and the Moore brothers. Actually we had a decent squad and finished 2nd in club that year( it was a really weak club division that year). What I'm getting at is that I LOVE state duals an think it is awesome for our state. I don't think Ohio has state duals at the middle school level it's so unique to Kentucky.

While I see why some would cancel I would ask those coaches why not fundraiser for the event? That team also had Wolnitzek and we ran a fundraiser for extra money that week and state. A big ole candy sale helped us to get the money needed for those tournament.

Kentucky Middle School State Duals brought to you by Martin Machining. It has a nice ring.

I remember that team with the jones brothers, watson and Lee I believe. That was a tough squad. I believe at least one team has opted out of the state tournament every year. Cost is typically the major factor. However it sounds like stanmms is willing to cover all expenses so we can implement a sanction policy. In that case I'm all for it.

Mpire- lol. I think you are on the wrong thread. Tell you what, if CC beats Wadsworth in a dual, I'll do what I can to get Ryle to change their mind about state duals.

Just having some

Fun you know I love you guys even though you chickened out of duals for some

Reason , of course you guys dd show up to watch my baby boy get beat on by Kevin lol

Now as for Wadsworth ain't no body sweating them and My baby boy battled their star srs when he was a frosh , now as for a tough tourny as I said state DUALS was tougher than Wadsworth , I actually hav no clue about Wadsworth team they actually won state a few yea back but they are not that team now not by a long shot no squires no grey no where near their former firepower , and I recognized many of the other teams in their tourny , not the cream of the crop , I did t see Massilon or Eds or anyone else of note other than Ryle and Wadsworth , Sk X union Larue CC all would have done well there , the top six teams at duals would annihilate the top six teams at that Wadsworth tournent excluding Ryle

Of course and including them with KY where they belong , now why the heck did Ryle

Really not do duals , ??? And I am telling you Sk just like CC is not the same team they were a few weeks or months ago .

And yeah CC can whoop that Wadsworth ass as well as Ryles hahahahahannanaban

Just having some

Fun you know I love you guys even though you chickened out of duals for some

Reason , of course you guys dd show up to watch my baby boy get beat on by Kevin lol

Now as for Wadsworth ain't no body sweating them and My baby boy battled their star srs when he was a frosh , now as for a tough tourny as I said state DUALS was tougher than Wadsworth , I actually hav no clue about Wadsworth team they actually won state a few yea back but they are not that team now not by a long shot no squires no grey no where near their former firepower , and I recognized many of the other teams in their tourny , not the cream of the crop , I did t see Massilon or Eds or anyone else of note other than Ryle and Wadsworth , Sk X union Larue CC all would have done well there , the top six teams at duals would annihilate the top six teams at that Wadsworth tournent excluding Ryle

Of course and including them with KY where they belong , now why the heck did Ryle

Really not do duals , ??? And I am telling you Sk just like CC is not the same team they were a few weeks or months ago .

And yeah CC can whoop that Wadsworth ass as well as Ryles hahahahahannanaban

It could be that we will have wrestled SK 7 times and CC 5 before the year is out. Would it make a difference if it were 8 and 6? We will also have seen almost every team that participates in Duals at least once before state. It could also be that it isn't really a recognized event. Maybe its because once our JV team qualified and that pissed eveyone off so we quit sending our B team to the qualifier. Maybe because our focus is on the real State Tourney. Maybe we don't want everyone to see our secret weapon. Maybe we all had the flu. Could be that we have a 220 pound transfer who isn't eligible yet or is he 160? Maybe we spent the last 10 years convincing Cincinnati that KY has some decent wrestling and the dipshits further north haven't gotten the memo. In a few years CC and SK may be trying to get into Wadsworth. They did follow us to SWOCA and GMVWA. hahahaha.

But for real - congrats to both the Big Camel and the Little ones. Definitely a quality program even if they wear girly colors.

Purple and gold ???? Girly colors ??????? And I saw some pics lol that kid holdin the plaque for whipping that tail at 220 at Wadsworth looked familiar to me , and if your keeping a 220 secret and he has a shot his last name better be Snyder or EL ,

And our 160 can go with anyone on any given day ,

Why didn't you just say hey we are tired of wrestling the same old people , I know I heard the dual wasn't recognized but it is what it is a dual with the best teams in the state there ??? So it's not state duals to some but it is to everyone that counts all the coaches teams and wrestlers lol

And hey don't worry I hear transfers are eligible after the state duals that are actually not even recognized by khsaa which brings me to my next ? Why were they used by khsaa last yr as a cut of date for my transfers ???? Either way

You suckers

Can't run no more we will be seeing you in a couple weeks , girly colors seriously , bring all those swashbuckling long John silver lookin gym rats of yours on over in a couple weeks transfers and all , " thought I saw Halls RV roaming around Florence "and don't take any detours north up 71 you guys are a KY team

,get of at double AA soon to be quadrouple ATM highway . Hajahhahajahahahah

Purple and gold ???? Girly colors ??????? And I saw some pics lol that kid holdin the plaque for whipping that tail at 220 at Wadsworth looked familiar to me , and if your keeping a 220 secret and he has a shot his last name better be Snyder or EL ,

And our 160 can go with anyone on any given day ,

Why didn't you just say hey we are tired of wrestling the same old people , I know I heard the dual wasn't recognized but it is what it is a dual with the best teams in the state there ??? So it's not state duals to some but it is to everyone that counts all the coaches teams and wrestlers lol

And hey don't worry I hear transfers are eligible after the state duals that are actually not even recognized by khsaa which brings me to my next ? Why were they used by khsaa last yr as a cut of date for my transfers ???? Either way

You suckers

Can't run no more we will be seeing you in a couple weeks , girly colors seriously , bring all those swashbuckling long John silver lookin gym rats of yours on over in a couple weeks transfers and all , " thought I saw Halls RV roaming around Florence "and don't take any detours north up 71 you guys are a KY team

,get of at double AA soon to be quadrouple ATM highway . Hajahhahajahahahah

Hahahaha. I installed several RV hookups in my backyard to put Ryle over the top this year. And Long John silver is bad ass, hush puppies and all

Can we take the discussion of the High School State Duals to the High School thread and leave this one for the Middle School State duals please, thank you.

Well on a serious note , the HS state duals are linked to the youth state duals, and I'm

Sure there are some young raider wrestlers out there that are wondering if they will ever get to wrestle at the HS version , that should be the goal of those attending the jr high duals .