Topic ID: 9273 | 117 Posts
Someone posted on another thread about a certain team being one of if not the best team in KY Wrestling history.
I dont know enough about KY Wrestling History to argue one team or another, but it got me to thinking about what is the best team ever in KY.
I tought the topic deserves a thread of its own.
So lets hear what was the best team in KY and why?
Hard to argue Woodford Co.'s 2006 State Championship team. 5 individual State Champs that night. Ran away with the overall team score. It was wrapped up after semis, before any of the place winning wrestle backs had been wrestled.
I did say Nky and said ask anyone in Ohio and they would say CC now because they go there and face , them , not sure in Ky ever , there has to be some pretty dominant teams , as for national level I would bet CC team is right there with or above any, 4 all Americans , on CC team
For the over all sport of wrestling in Kentucky.. I'd say this years Campbell County team. It's just what they've done to the Ohio teams and the big tournaments. The year isn't over and Woodford had a dynasty going there for a while but this years not over and they could make quite an argument for that title. Truth...I'm not a Campbell County fan ..I'm a Northern KY wrestling fan and Ohio has been saying we're so weak for years and I think Campbell has set a tone for other teams to follow.. This is just my opinion !
and yes they have a slight chance at 5 ... fausz-myers-myers-matthews and alot of placers and maybe one of those could get lucky
WC-13 time State Champs
UC- 6 time State Champs
CC- 6 time State Champs
I think we can all agree that overall that these are the 3 most successful teams in KY wrestling history. Campbell Co. has an exceptional team this year, but there can be all types of arguements as to who was the best ever. I say WC because no one else has 13 titles, and no one else has ever had 5 Champs in one night.
I guess it all depends on what your using as a measuring stick. Like I said it can be argued a multitude of ways.
How many points did Woodford Co score in 2006? This Campbell Co team has a shot at multiple champs and a few placers as well. Team score, in my opinion is a better gauge.
There was a South Oldham team that had every weight class but one qualifiy for state. They only had 2 champs, but had a score that may never be surpassed....it was just under 260. I'm wanting to say it was 2003. Campbell and Union seem incredibly strong, but I honestly don't see either brininging such across the board balance. Longevity best team has to be easily Woodford. I think they have 12 or 13 titles. Thats bringing it.
There was a South Oldham team that had every weight class but one qualifiy for state. They only had 2 champs, but had a score that may never be surpassed....it was just under 260. I'm wanting to say it was 2003. Campbell and Union seem incredibly strong, but I honestly don't see either brininging such across the board balance. Longevity best team has to be easily Woodford. I think they have 12 or 13 titles. Thats bringing it.
2003 South Oldham team. They qualified all 14 with 13 placing top 8.
I would also have to say the 2003 south oldham team 13 placers is ridiculous plus I got to wrestle with a lot of them when I was there my freshman year in 04
I agree also, 03 south oldham team was best I've ever seen top to bottom
03 South was good but Woodofrd putting 5 in the finals in 06 and having 5 champs, CC wont come close to those two teams this year as far as placers, team score or state champs
2010 Trinity was pretty good. 6 finalists,10 placers, top 4 most team points.
Union County team of 1980 won had 4 state champs and multiple placers when they won it all with 12 weights. Think they held the record for team points until 2003 when South Oldham won it. I would rank them up there with the top teams.
You can't really gauge by team scores because of the switch from 16 to 32 man brackets I think that 13 placers is insanity and this team probably was the best tournament team I had seen. I remember going down to highschool state for the first time this year and remembering how dominant of a team they had.
No one could argue with 13 state championships ,"they have the best record no question about it . "
Or possibly 5 champs , the question is the caliber of comp everyone has faced in the past , there are more teams and obviously better teams now ,
Taking a whole team is huge CC almost did last yr and cannot this yr they have no 126 , but will
Take a loT !!!!perhaps everyone !!!!
Some could say most points longest win streak all could be considered the best .
But looking at Union ,Sk, X , Trinity , Ryle , Woodford , Larue . Moore ; Oldham , and CC ,
Be serious NONE of those teams had to go against that level of Comp , The teams are better just look what SK did at Duals , no one expected that and it could happen at state not because comp is weak but because it is good ,
I cant speak about teams of the past in KY I dont know them all , but I have seen a lot of teams other than Moeller I haven't seen a better team in the NKY/ Cincy area than CC ever . I think they are better than last yrs team overall , four champs last yr two returning with two of six placers as well and everyone improving , Fausz is way better , Sam and PH are Sam and PH , ATM should be better , Mathews is much improved as is Woods , the lightweights are young and improved and Bachman is back in and improved as the yr progressed ,
I have never seen a ky school win any major tournament in Ohio and CC won all but their first beating the school that beat them when they were down three or four later and losing only to Graham , and X won the rumble early in the yr when CC did not have their full lineup in or at weight !!!
As for a dual team , they doubled their finals opponent score , against a team that beat X to get there !!
How I would judge the best team would be how they all stacked up in the biggest tournament and there is no team in ky that could beat CC in a huge tournament like Iron Man , Powerade , or even Rumble or Gmva with their real lineup in ,Union being the sole contender and the Woodford studs being still a little young to hang on that level.
You just said it....you don't know teams in KY from past, so you can't intelligently say CC team now is better! Maybe those kids were just heads and shoulders better than any comp that came their way. CC is best this year, but don't minimize what WC 2006 or south Oldham 2003, trinity 2010, etc did.....because you don't know.
by talking about bachman can he wrestle at 152 ? or is sam staying at 152 along with coop ? I hate asking but .....I am .. and as mentioned above I too think this is the best team to ever step on the mats of kentucky.
You just said it....you don't know teams in KY from past, so you can't intelligently say CC team now is better! Maybe those kids were just heads and shoulders better than any comp that came their way. CC is best this year, but don't minimize what WC 2006 or south Oldham 2003, trinity 2010, etc did.....because you don't know.
hope this doesn't get argued over for a week lol..... it's like a marciano vs ali thing ? we will never no.......to me it's just doing in ohio what no team has ever done in ky which is a huge breakthrough.. in nky at least
Woodford had 5 homegrown champs in 1 year? Cant argue with that. Until anyone can match or beat that I don't know that another has an argument.
Anyone know how many they placed overall that year?
Best team in 16 man bracket would be 1997 Woodford team; they scored 195 points in the tournament and had three champs that year.
Best team with the 32 man bracket would be 2003 South Oldham they 257.5 points in the tournament and had two champs that year. You can beat all the good teams and wrestlers you want during season but when it's all said and done it is what you did at the big show and that is that. I know this from experience.
I have to argue for s. Oldham that they had the best "team". 5 state champions is impressive, but its what they ALL did that makes the team.
I'd put This years CC team up against any of the states past team and I'd say CC beats them all
Woodford Co. 2006
230 Team Points at State
112 Coty Lewis 1st (3x State Finalist)
145 Harrison Courtney 1st (4x State Champ 6x placer)
171 Will Starks 1st (2x State Champ)
189 Richard Starks 1st (3x State Champ 4x finalist)
275 Kyle Goodrich 1st
103 Shane Parks 3rd (eventual State Champ)
160 Chad Fyffe 4th (2x State placer)
215 Matt Byrd 5th (eventual State Champ and 3x placer)
8 Placers, 5 State Champs, 13 individual titles between those guys listed and 13 Team titles.
I think CC is an outstanding team, I believe that they would give this team a run for their money. That being said, I still believe the 06 WC team to be a touch better. They competed and tough tournaments as well ie Greenville, Hammer and Anvil, the Dragon just to name a few.
Well , i admitt I do not know all the ky teams of the the past and Someone takes a knock with an intelligence comment , how typical ,
Well intelligently speaking. I know Fausz is a Fila AA Mathews , Austin , Stephen , Fausz are. NHSCA AA , Austin is a nhsca champ and Ow Stephen is a 3 x Fargo AA , they won state last yr , they won Duals this yr ,they won Fairfield, Gmva big school , And Hammer and Anvil and lost Rumble and Franklin by mere point down numerous wrestlers , won two OWs at rumble one at Franklin most pins at Gmva and ow at Hammer .
I can without a doubt intelligently say they have a case for being the best Ky team ever , and you intelligently cannot question my intelligence ,
If you could you would match those statistics or accomplishments but you cannot all you can do us tell of wins points scored and records of the past against weaker teams in smaller tournaments , sorry if facts hurt but facts are facts
Interesting comparison, what was the rest of the Woodford lineup i think I remember at least a few Stephen Butler, Sheehan maybe, was Rusty Parks graduated already?
Woodford Co. 2006
230 Team Points at State
112 Coty Lewis 1st (3x State Finalist)
145 Harrison Courtney 1st (4x State Champ 6x placer)
171 Will Starks 1st (2x State Champ)
189 Richard Starks 1st (3x State Champ 4x finalist)
275 Kyle Goodrich 1st
103 Shane Parks 3rd (eventual State Champ)
160 Chad Fyffe 4th (2x State placer)
215 Matt Byrd 5th (eventual State Champ and 3x placer)
8 Placers, 5 State Champs, 13 individual titles between those guys listed and 13 Team titles.
I think CC is an outstanding team, I believe that they would give this team a run for their money. That being said, I still believe the 06 WC team to be a touch better. They competed and tough tournaments as well ie Greenville, Hammer and Anvil, the Dragon just to name a few.
Very impressive. This gets my vote (for now). How did these boys fare beyond high school?
Yes impressive indeed but your vote is null and void
Not sure bout college wrestling , but three are referees now. Have not seen them all much, but Goodrich is one of the best up and coming refs I've seen.
Not sure bout college wrestling , but three are referees now. Have not seen them all much, but Goodrich is one of the best up and coming refs I've seen.
Thanks! Great to know the guys are still involved.
The guys , lol what are they your old teammates .
Richard Starks had a good career wrestling for Army, I think he was varsity all 4 years.
I thought I heard Coty Lewis wrestled a few years out in Iowa, and Harrison Courtney was at Lindsey Wilson.
That was a good group of kids and parents, always fun to wrestle against them and to see them wrestle.
Hope they are all doing well!
I still think your best team ever in Ky has to be based off the total points a team scored in the state tournament. Cam Co. may very well be the best team ever this year, if they score over 257.5 points. South Oldham not only broke the record for most points scored but no one was within 72 points of them. I do think that if the 1997 Woodford team was in a 32 man bracket instead of the 16 they would have broke the 257.5. All these other teams that are being mention weren’t good enough to dominate the competition like these two did during their time and in my eyes that is what your better teams do; they don’t just win they own the competition.
Well , CC run isn't over I see a few college kids in last yr and this yrs crew there ,I never heard of most of those guys and I prettying focus on how kids do against tough comp not against kids who never wrestle anyone outside of their state , regardless , I could say CC has the best team
Ever at CC and most would say no way or argue with me over a group of kids that didn't even know where Fargo was let alone wrestle there .
The best ever is the best now so we will see in a couple weeks , 13 is a lucky number
The Mighty Pioneers of Simon Kenton won a State Championship in 87 when there was a SEMI STATE, I repeat SEMI STATE...
That is top 4 out of district (region 6), Top 4 of Region (Region 6 and Oldham county Region), Top 4 to SEMI State (2 more regions combine).
Then a 1 day 8 MAN BRACKET STATE. The best of the best.
SK finished with...
2 State champs
2 Runner Ups
2 3rds
8 qualifers of 12 weights, not 14 in a watered down 32 man bracket. Over 100 points, which is equivalent to 300 in the 32 man bracket.
Hard to top the Yellow Jackets with 5 state champs, a state champ is a state champ no matter how many brackets,but the placers make a big difference. and SK without out a doubt would have had a run like south oldham if 14 weights and 32 man brackets. not 12 weights, and 8 man bracket. Also undefeated in dual competition and won all tournaments.
Think about it, top 4, then top 4 then top 4, then Elite 8. 4 consecutive weeksk of weigh ins and top caliber competition, even then Region 6 dominated.
Unfortunately, some top level competitors never placed or even qualified for that matter. Meat grinder at its finest.
8 qualifers of 12 weights, not 14 in a watered down 32 man bracket. Over 100 points, which is equivalent to 300 in the 32 man bracket.
Thats a lot of points.
2013 , it's CC or Union
Bracketology
Great points by all, never gonna know how one great team would have fared against another and in that is the great debate.
There is alot to debate about what makes the best team, you decide: total points, total champs, total placers, total team, # of teams, # of wrestlers, its all good.
It's great to hear from so many supporting their own teams or generation,
We collectively are KY Wrestling, from every corner, stand tall and be proud.
Every year the state gets better and this year will be the same, so good luck to all, wrestle your best, give it your all and no regrets!
The Mighty Pioneers of Simon Kenton won a State Championship in 87 when there was a SEMI STATE, I repeat SEMI STATE...
That is top 4 out of district (region 6), Top 4 of Region (Region 6 and Oldham county Region), Top 4 to SEMI State (2 more regions combine).
Then a 1 day 8 MAN BRACKET STATE. The best of the best.
SK finished with...
2 State champs
2 Runner Ups
2 3rds
8 qualifers of 12 weights, not 14 in a watered down 32 man bracket. Over 100 points, which is equivalent to 300 in the 32 man bracket.
Hard to top the Yellow Jackets with 5 state champs, a state champ is a state champ no matter how many brackets,but the placers make a big difference. and SK without out a doubt would have had a run like south oldham if 14 weights and 32 man brackets. not 12 weights, and 8 man bracket. Also undefeated in dual competition and won all tournaments.
Think about it, top 4, then top 4 then top 4, then Elite 8. 4 consecutive weeksk of weigh ins and top caliber competition, even then Region 6 dominated.
Unfortunately, some top level competitors never placed or even qualified for that matter. Meat grinder at its finest.
Who were there champs that year ? I would assume Barnes was one of them.. I know Cliff Woods was on that team, I graduated in 86 from SK when Jamie Baugh won his title
Union County in 1980 had 6 wrestlers in the finals, 4 state champs, 2 seconds, 2 thirds and a fourth. There were only 12 weight classes at the time. I believe they scored 182 team points.
Ok here are some old teams that would have to be considered.
1980 Union Co. (12 wt. classes only placed the top 6)
1980
Ervin, Robert 98 3rd
Smith, James 105 2nd
Gibson, Mark 119 1st
Davis, Kenny 126 1st
Brown, Maurice 132 1st
Hines, Mark 138 2nd
Wilson, James 155
Wedding, Robbie 167 1st
Buckman, William 185 4th
Lovell, David Hwt 5th
Thats 6 finalist out of 12 (half the team)
4 champions (1/3 of the team
9 out of 12 placers.
1986 Hopkinsville (12 wt. classes only place top 6)
1986
Rueff, Phill 98
Poindexter, John 119 3rd
Huddleston, Tim 132
Poindexter, David 138 2nd
Herring, Aaron 145 1st
Bailey, Steve 167 1st
Halloway, Roger 185 1st
Herring, Gartha Hwt 1st
1990 Campbell Co. (13 wt. classes only place top 6)
1990
Wilkens, Brandon 103 4th
Gray, Glenn 112 3rd
Meyer, Mickey 130 5th
Hagen, Chris 135 5th
Segura, Jay 140
Barrett, Marc 145 5th
Strause, Mike 152 4th
Zinga, Curt 160 1st
Hagen, Phil 171 3rd
Turner, Rick 189 3rd
Newman, Jim Hwt 3rd
Only 1 champion but had 10 placers out of 13.
Who were there champs that year ? I would assume Barnes was one of them.. I know Cliff Woods was on that team, I graduated in 86 from SK when Jamie Baugh won his title
Here is the SK team you are talking about
1987
Everman, Jeff 98 1st
Reimer, Chuck 105 1st
Long, Paul 119 3rd
Barnes, David 126 2nd
Lee, Pat 145
Feuhner, David 155 2nd
Woods, Cliff 167 3rd
Brosky, David 185
Lee, Bob Hwt
David Barnes would win it the next year.
Here is the SK team you are talking about
1987
Everman, Jeff 98 1st
Reimer, Chuck 105 1st
Long, Paul 119 3rd
Barnes, David 126 2nd
Lee, Pat 145
Feuhner, David 155 2nd
Woods, Cliff 167 3rd
Brosky, David 185
Lee, Bob Hwt
David Barnes would win it the next year.
Thanks that brings back good memories ! A lot of those guys were and are very close friends of mine
This is the best thread of the year, especially for those of us new to the Bluegrass.
I would take that bet. I am sure coaches of those "teams of old "would as well. Win or lor lose it would be fun to see. One thing is for sure, technique has evolved greatly over the years.I'd put This years CC team up against any of the states past team and I'd say CC beats them all
Now add all of those wrestlers combined wins over out of state comp in those yrs , and I bet this yrs CC team has more than all of them !!!Ok here are some old teams that would have to be considered.
1980 Union Co. (12 wt. classes only placed the top 6)
1980
Ervin, Robert 98 3rd
Smith, James 105 2nd
Gibson, Mark 119 1st
Davis, Kenny 126 1st
Brown, Maurice 132 1st
Hines, Mark 138 2nd
Wilson, James 155
Wedding, Robbie 167 1st
Buckman, William 185 4th
Lovell, David Hwt 5th
Thats 6 finalist out of 12 (half the team)
4 champions (1/3 of the team
9 out of 12 placers.
1986 Hopkinsville (12 wt. classes only place top 6)
1986
Rueff, Phill 98
Poindexter, John 119 3rd
Huddleston, Tim 132
Poindexter, David 138 2nd
Herring, Aaron 145 1st
Bailey, Steve 167 1st
Halloway, Roger 185 1st
Herring, Gartha Hwt 1st
1990 Campbell Co. (13 wt. classes only place top 6)
1990
Wilkens, Brandon 103 4th
Gray, Glenn 112 3rd
Meyer, Mickey 130 5th
Hagen, Chris 135 5th
Segura, Jay 140
Barrett, Marc 145 5th
Strause, Mike 152 4th
Zinga, Curt 160 1st
Hagen, Phil 171 3rd
Turner, Rick 189 3rd
Newman, Jim Hwt 3rd
Only 1 champion but had 10 placers out of 13.
I think people are missing the point , take. That CC team for instance , send all of them to NHSCAs or a larger tournament and maybe , one places , this yrs CC team has 6 possibly more that can compete and place on a national level , X has a few , Sk has a couple , union has a few ,
The super teams of the good old days were big fish in a little little pond , Kentucky isn't a little pond anymore it's not full of small weak teams that can be dominated by a couple good ones ,
Those teams were not the level of a few that are around the state currently . And yeah intelligenty I wasn't there but intelligently , ask youself could the kids in corresponding weights hang with the same on unions , Xs , CC , or some of the others , or go out of state and make waves every go ,
You know they couldnt , how many AAs were on those teams goo ??? And Yes Stephen would have smoked Zinga , and Austin would have pinned Shearer in the first period and Fausz is a better technical wrestler than any of those CC wrestlers mentioned , and CC current team would blast that team in a decent tournament ,
I guess when everyone looks back at this or last yrs team at CC and says how many of them went D1or 2 or whatever , people will figure it out , but most will still argue for the oldies .
And before some hater says you were not there , I was all over and , trust me there were no Fauszs no Brocks , no Lampes ,no ATMs , there could have been some Coopers but no Kevin's no Bostons or Lawson's or Clays , or Yenters or Fahys or Bobby Bryant's , no Canters , no SAMs ,
There probably were some PHs but they were playing Basketball , no Carrs , no kids who could come out of no where and be good anywhere like French , Meiman , Adams ,
I think Jeff Evermen was one of the champsWho were there champs that year ? I would assume Barnes was one of them.. I know Cliff Woods was on that team, I graduated in 86 from SK when Jamie Baugh won his title
Was his brother Jeff Ball
Was his brother Jeff Ball
Yes. Jamie was SK's first state champ.
It's hard to compare era's.
You have to imagine taking those teams and give them the training of this era's teams
As for out of state comp. I'm sure CC was going across the river back then, They have been ever since Bankemper took the team.
I love this debate. It is very hard to compare different era's in any sport. I believe this year's CC team probably has the best group of nationally competitive kids KY has ever seen. However, it is it yet to be seen how much more dominant this team is over the rest of the state. I think UC is right on their heals. I know some of those WC teams destroyed the rest of the state and the 87 SK team just ran over everyone. That SK team had amazing talent, senior leadership and probably the best coaching staff in Ky at the time with Bill Boyle, Mark Townsley, Bill Barker and Stan Martin. The intensity in that practice room was insane. They made wrestling cool at SK in a basketball crazy school and that legacy has carried over ever since.Now add all of those wrestlers combined wins over out of state comp in those yrs , and I bet this yrs CC team has more than all of them !!!
I think people are missing the point , take. That CC team for instance , send all of them to NHSCAs or a larger tournament and maybe , one places , this yrs CC team has 6 possibly more that can compete and place on a national level , X has a few , Sk has a couple , union has a few ,
The super teams of the good old days were big fish in a little little pond , Kentucky isn't a little pond anymore it's not full of small weak teams that can be dominated by a couple good ones ,
Those teams were not the level of a few that are around the state currently . And yeah intelligenty I wasn't there but intelligently , ask youself could the kids in corresponding weights hang with the same on unions , Xs , CC , or some of the others , or go out of state and make waves every go ,
You know they couldnt , how many AAs were on those teams goo ??? And Yes Stephen would have smoked Zinga , and Austin would have pinned Shearer in the first period and Fausz is a better technical wrestler than any of those CC wrestlers mentioned , and CC current team would blast that team in a decent tournament ,
I guess when everyone looks back at this or last yrs team at CC and says how many of them went D1or 2 or whatever , people will figure it out , but most will still argue for the oldies .
And before some hater says you were not there , I was all over and , trust me there were no Fauszs no Brocks , no Lampes ,no ATMs , there could have been some Coopers but no Kevin's no Bostons or Lawson's or Clays , or Yenters or Fahys or Bobby Bryant's , no Canters , no SAMs ,
There probably were some PHs but they were playing Basketball , no Carrs , no kids who could come out of no where and be good anywhere like French , Meiman , Adams ,
Austin would have pinned Shearer in the first period
I don't think anyone went to an AA tourney in those days.
There is not a Shearer on any of those teams (there was one in the early 80s) It would have been Turner or Newman.
I think the way to measure a team is to not look at individual achievements, but to look at the team as a complete entity. A team with 5 state champs, is impressive, but without a supporting cast, those 5 cannot win the overall state championship. In theory, they could lose every single dual they enter, and have 5 undefeated state champs, or even 5 national champs, but still have a poor dual record. There is a cap to how many points a single individual can score at state, regardless of talent. Bo Jordan could move to Kentucky and stick his way through the state tournament, but he wouldn't score any more points than any other kid who might not be on a national ranking, and pins all his opponents in 5:59. Also, in theory, you could have the best dual team ever, and not have a state champ or nationally ranked kid. I believe St. X won state without a kid in the finals, '98 or '99.
So this brings us to the point where 'the best ever' is still an easily debatable topic since it is nothing more than opinion. If we make the criteria more quantitative, then we can actually measure the best team from a statistical standpoint. My suggestion would be to take the total number of kids (even those that aren't starters) and divide that number by the total points scored at the state tournament. This would take away the advantage of those teams with overwhelming numbers. A team 98 kids on the roster is bound to find a kid that can roll around and not get manhandled. This also emphasizes the 'quality over quantity' coaching strategy.
This would bring us to a slippery slope. The team with only 2 kids on the roster, but both win state? Not the best team ever (Murton's?).
So, take the total number of kids in the starting lineup, divide that by total points scored at the state tournament to get 'average points scored per starter'.
I'm not going to do the math, but to me, that quantitative data would be hard to argue. But I'm going to take a guess that the South Oldham team with 13 placers is going to be hard to beat.
Oh man, that got out of control, sorry.
I'm going to go do some statistical analysis.
I had a roommate in college that wrestled at Fairfield High School. He was an above average wrestler, but he only qualified for state once and never placed in Ohio. He beat Brandon Wilkens two years in a row at the Fairfield invitation. Brandon was a 5 time state placer and 2 time state champ on that CC team. Brandon was an awesome Kentucky wrestler. He could keep a match close with anyone and was always a gammer. However, I was shocked when I found out he lost to my roommate not once but twice. I think that illustrates how big the gap was back then between Kentucky and Cincinnati, let alone the rest of Ohio. This year's CC team has not only narrowed the gap, but they have proven that they can beat just about everyone over there except maybe one or two teams.It's hard to compare era's. You have to imagine taking those teams and give them the training of this era's teams As for out of state comp. I'm sure CC was going across the river back then, They have been ever since Bankemper took the team.
Yes. Jamie was SK's first state champ.
He was a good dude ,
I was talking past top wrestlers Shearer being a st Champ , Newman would have lasted about 15 seconds lolI don't think anyone went to an AA tourney in those days.
There is not a Shearer on any of those teams (there was one in the early 80s) It would have been Turner or Newman.
I was talking past top wrestlers Shearer being a st Champ , Newman would have lasted about 15 seconds lolI don't think anyone went to an AA tourney in those days.
There is not a Shearer on any of those teams (there was one in the early 80s) It would have been Turner or Newman.
Mat was a beast in the day but today there is a wide difference between the best and the rest . Not sure how good Newman was he was / is a great person.
And I'm
Not singling out just a few when I say 6 or so have AA potential and four already are that's a nice chunk , I agree union has nearly the same capabilities or the same who knows , but you
Can't claim superiority of a team who had inferior teams / less teams / and less talent and know how to go against /and yes four or five kids can win a big tourny with a decent team around them , that's the point take away the big guns and CC still has a competitive team , but take a kid like SAM and ad him to a Union team of last yr and the four pins and tech he had would have made it a blowout .
It's hard to compare era's.
You have to imagine taking those teams and give them the training of this era's teams
As for out of state comp. I'm sure CC was going across the river back then, They have been ever since Bankemper took the team.
Very true, but it is fun to dream up scenarios. Who's to say the 1927 Yanks could beat the 1976 Reds? Different eras. I think the only measure that holds water is to look at how teams from different eras dominated that time period. Even so, it is not an apples to apples comparison.
The only advantage the older era wrestlers had over the modern wrestlers was the ability to cut a ton of weight. Today's rules prevent it and rightfully so, but it would be an advantage if you compare line ups from different decades. It wasn't uncommon to see kids cut 20+ pounds back in the day. I would say the sheer size of the wrestlers around before the hydration and body fat tests would be considerably bigger than the modern kids when they actually stepped foot on the mat against each other in a hypothetical match. Larry Owens cut over 30 pounds to get to 142 to wrestle Gable. I still claim Louden Swain's upset of Brian Shute wasn't that big of a deal considering he was a state qualifier 2 weight classes higher the year before.Very true, but it is fun to dream up scenarios. Who's to say the 1927 Yanks could beat the 1976 Reds? Different eras. I think the only measure that holds water is to look at how teams from different eras dominated that time period. Even so, it is not an apples to apples comparison.
It's funny when that show came out everyone thought it was hardcore , now it's funny to today's athletes Shute is wimp .
All those athletes of the past if they went through the same training and tournaments , might as good but that's just dumb ,like saying if you trained like a certain kid did what they did and all the rest yeah chances are your as good as them .
And yes those CC teams did go to OhIo !!!!!!!
How did they do ???????
Doubt they did as good as CC this yr ??
Doubt they had Kids beat OHIOs top ranked kids like CCs team did this yr ??
Doubt they had OWs in three different tourny by three different kids and won other individual stuff as well ?????
It's always something someone or somewhere better ,and it's true there is always someone better or some team
Better on a given day , but facts are facts a team back in Paleolithic ky times that beat a bunch of kida who didn't know the difference between a slide bye or throw bye is hardly comparable to a bunch of streamlined modern day wrestlers who dominate in two states and over a quarter of the team can go home and look at AA awards on their wall !!!! SK CC Woodford teams of the past did not have this kind of team yes four or so studs do not make a great team although it can but four or six studs usually turns into eight or twelve over time , the room snowballs , everyone gets better .
I have seen it over and over , a few studs make a team great a bunch of studs make everyone great , Campbell County has a great team better than last yrs better than ever , of course there are Those who disagree ,but Facts speak louder than words or old stats ,
I would say Unions team or Xs or possibly SKs would be the best ever without the current day comp ,
Either way just people's opinions and a few facts , I love living in the past as much as the next guy , but I was around in the past , there were not guys like these or the union kids or the X kids or kids like Cooper or Hiero who took advantage of all those before them and a dad who learned and fixed stuff as he went ,
All depends on what you use as a measure or consider best ,
I consider best winning , and winning on a high level , as well as dominating performance , with the high level being first measure , dominating a bunch of lesser trained lesser talented kids doesn't mean anything .
I have talked to some of the state champs of the past in ky and knew some as well , most wouldn't dare state they were better than these guys although some were hit in the head to hard and probably would , but they couldn't even coach these guys because they don't even know what they know .
It's funny when that show came out everyone thought it was hardcore , now it's funny to today's athletes Shute is wimp .
All those athletes of the past if they went through the same training and tournaments , might as good but that's just dumb ,like saying if you trained like a certain kid did what they did and all the rest yeah chances are your as good as them .
And yes those CC teams did go to OhIo !!!!!!!
How did they do ???????
Doubt they did as good as CC this yr ??
Doubt they had Kids beat OHIOs top ranked kids like CCs team did this yr ??
Doubt they had OWs in three different tourny by three different kids and won other individual stuff as well ?????
It's always something someone or somewhere better ,and it's true there is always someone better or some team
Better on a given day , but facts are facts a team back in Paleolithic ky times that beat a bunch of kida who didn't know the difference between a slide bye or throw bye is hardly comparable to a bunch of streamlined modern day wrestlers who dominate in two states and over a quarter of the team can go home and look at AA awards on their wall !!!! SK CC Woodford teams of the past did not have this kind of team yes four or so studs do not make a great team although it can but four or six studs usually turns into eight or twelve over time , the room snowballs , everyone gets better .
I have seen it over and over , a few studs make a team great a bunch of studs make everyone great , Campbell County has a great team better than last yrs better than ever , of course there are Those who disagree ,but Facts speak louder than words or old stats ,
I would say Unions team or Xs or possibly SKs would be the best ever without the current day comp ,
Either way just people's opinions and a few facts , I love living in the past as much as the next guy , but I was around in the past , there were not guys like these or the union kids or the X kids or kids like Cooper or Hiero who took advantage of all those before them and a dad who learned and fixed stuff as he went ,
All depends on what you use as a measure or consider best ,
I consider best winning , and winning on a high level , as well as dominating performance , with the high level being first measure , dominating a bunch of lesser trained lesser talented kids doesn't mean anything .
I have talked to some of the state champs of the past in ky and knew some as well , most wouldn't dare state they were better than these guys although some were hit in the head to hard and probably would , but they couldn't even coach these guys because they don't even know what they know .
I think it is safe to say that if this year's CC team wins state in dominating fashion they will be in everyone's mix for best team ever. Your comment about old technique made me laugh out loud because it is very true. Every now and then I throw in an old VHS tape of some of my old matches and am embarassed by our technique and I'm not THAT old. My brother pulled out the tape of his finals match to show his 9 year old son recently and it was the first time his son had ever seen a VHS tape...true story. He had no idea what it was. That was a nice kick to his ego. I bet the current Cincinnati Bengals could probably beat the 85' Bears, but it is still fun to debate. I'll take the 1987 Simon Kenton Pioneers because I'm very biased.
I don't know what I did there, but someone I quoted myself and Mpire at the same time.
I don't know what I did there, but someone I quoted myself and Mpire at the same time.
Ha Ha, I see you did a little editing as well. What happened to the "and I hate CC!" at the end? I wouldn't call it hate maybe extreme dislike, kinda like the face my kids made when they were younger and I made them eat peas. Just wants to make you gag! 
Ha Ha, I see you did a little editing as well. What happened to the "and I hate CC!" at the end? I wouldn't call it hate maybe extreme dislike, kinda like the face my kids made when they were younger and I made them eat peas. Just wants to make you gag!
Haha...you caught that huh? I deleted it because a) it's not true as I was only joking and 
I enjoy my amical back and forth with Mpire and didn't want to get his wrath!
Being from Woodford County I am a little biased. However as many have pointed out it is impossible to argue with our track record prior to the last half decade. If you are going to argue that one of our teams is the best, which I agree with, I would think that Coach Carr's opinion is valuable in this discussion. He has maintained since I've known him, 15 years now, that the 1993 is by far the best team Woodford Co has produced. I don't remember the team even though I did attend the tournament at Atherton HS as a boy but he says that they would run through my senior year (2002, 3 champs, 5 finalists, 11 placers, 14 qualifiers), the 1997 and 2006 teams. Says they were just studs with attitude and technique. Just my and Coach Carr's opinions, for what they're worth.
Shear would take care of 220 this year with a dominating fashion hahaha! Keep pating your self on the back, thats what real men do,
How any years you got left in KY? ah thats to bad
Not even sure who you are referring to but hopefully it's not me because the joke will be on you hahahah, I have a loooooonggggg time left as one is going out another will be starting that's about thirteen yrs hahahahahahahha ,
Some people are never happy , but that's good always shooting for better makes people better ,
Still sad at times when people do not realize whats in front of them , noticed it at SK at the dual qualifier , after the last match "" my wife said she hears someone say he wasn't impressed , I felt bad two kids give their all because everyone wanted to see it and some know nothing makes an ignorant comment so soon after a good match ,
The answer was simple , no one in the room particularly whoever made the comment ever had a match like that , always something better in some people's minds .
If they win state , CC goes out back to back state champs , state duals Champs , and the most successful Nky team ever VS Ohio comp ,
No question about it , The Team as a whole and the studs on it hammered everyone with dominating team and individual performances , the draw could change a lot the day could change more , Next week will answer a couple questions , the following will answer em all , and I don't hate Ryle , like some arch villain said when I was a younger me , "I PITY THE FOOLS "hahahahhahahahah
I had a roommate in college that wrestled at Fairfield High School. He was an above average wrestler, but he only qualified for state once and never placed in Ohio. He beat Brandon Wilkens two years in a row at the Fairfield invitation. Brandon was a 5 time state placer and 2 time state champ on that CC team. Brandon was an awesome Kentucky wrestler. He could keep a match close with anyone and was always a gammer. However, I was shocked when I found out he lost to my roommate not once but twice. I think that illustrates how big the gap was back then between Kentucky and Cincinnati, let alone the rest of Ohio. This year's CC team has not only narrowed the gap, but they have proven that they can beat just about everyone over there except maybe one or two teams.
I had a roommate in college that wrestled at Fairfield High School. He was an above average wrestler, but he only qualified for state once and never placed in Ohio. He beat Brandon Wilkens two years in a row at the Fairfield invitation. Brandon was a 5 time state placer and 2 time state champ on that CC team. Brandon was an awesome Kentucky wrestler. He could keep a match close with anyone and was always a gammer. However, I was shocked when I found out he lost to my roommate not once but twice. I think that illustrates how big the gap was back then between Kentucky and Cincinnati, let alone the rest of Ohio. This year's CC team has not only narrowed the gap, but they have proven that they can beat just about everyone over there except maybe one or two teams.
Really? Are you really saying CC would be number three in Ohio behind Ed's and Graham? I'm not offering an opinion just trying to understand.
Really? Are you really saying CC would be number three in Ohio behind Ed's and Graham? I'm not offering an opinion just trying to understand.
I said in Cincinnati...neither of those teams are in Cincinnati.
I'd agree with that. Thanks for clarifying.
Why is it Ryle and CC aren't wrestling Moe?
Because Moe people run Swowca and didn't want their image tarnished , CC was first on the list for SWOWCA and they dropped them to seventh or so , doubt CC ever does SWOWCA any time soon , Moe doesn't do Fairfield or Hammer GMVA or Franklin the tournys CC did , no invite to super duals I guess , Moe has a great team probably between third and sixth in Ohio , I think CC would be top ten for sure with a chance to make top five , they would have have made state duals this yr and next in Ohio so one could say top eight .
Either way doesn't matter to me SAM will be moving on they avoided him one last time lol .
Of course this is all the delusional ramblings of a conspiracy theorist sports obsessed old man .
But I have a feeling they will see ATM before its over .
And as for Cincy raider said it right with the first number they can beat anyone over there except maybe 1 , Moeller a private school with kids on the team from all over southern Ohio !!!!!
Greatest team ever isnt always measured by team points or state champs. Id take a homegrown team built from the ground up over a bunch of free agents. Kudos to coaches that dont sell their souls for titles like campbell county. The peoples champions will be union county this year.
High school all americans are great but theres a new all american tournament that pops up every
Year. Im running one next year. Dave Barnes never was a high school all american, just a d1 ncaa all american. Whats better? No brainer. Ryle has one of those might have another one with tj. Union will get the next one with caleb probably. Time will tell with cc.
Best ky team ever - 1993 woodford easily. Not a homer either.
This has been a great thread, but as all threads, they lead to CC and etc....... no problems here, I love the hyperbole.
I have read post suggesting Woodford, Union, SK, CC, Hopkinsville, all good arguments,
I really like the comparison of the SK team when the tournament was just Elite 8.
I would throw in the Trinity teams with Fahy Hitchings, Bradbury, Ohlman, I think an argument can be made for them as well.
The Trinity 2010 team won and loss was 46-17, maybe that should be the measurement for the best team. How the overall team performed is the reason a team wins from top to bottom. Maybe factor in some weighting for Pins and Major's, wheres our statistical analyst when you need em.
It seems the best team is not all about the individual champions, It really doesnt matter if the best wrestlers were nationally ranked or not, they are important but all of the teams had great champs, what about the rest of the team and as a team how did they perform.
So while this sport if made up of individual performances, its a team effort that makes up the greatest team in KY history..
.
Yawwwn. , well homegrown Sam and ATM were born in the county , can all of unions kids say that ,!????? LoL and you show your wrestling knowledge no AA like NHSCA AA s Fila or Fargo do not pop up all the time they are the original the best of the best , and what's better in HS a college AA or a HS AA , ask TJ how he felt wrestling that Fargo freshman AA from Moeller about a few yrs back and you will get a quick answer , and look at his class back then while your at it if you got the wrestling know how .
And as for all Americans at any level I will take ATM over anyone wrestling now from ky in HS Youth Middle or College , undefeated soph fresh national champ biggest frosh state champ ever in kY bro , No BRAINER indeed
And I agree evil dad the team has to be good no way CC Would have won all they have without a team of studs ,seriously they doubled Sk points in the finals , that's a huge win and that's a team win
As for soul selling ,allowing two kids to wrestle who have done so since the first grade and kindergarten is hardly an evil doing , more
Likely making them wait was the real sin ,
Throwing stones at B lol he sims does his job to the best he knows how balancing all the players ,
Great assistants Boggs and the rest grey McCubbins and Sparh this yr , funny every point you brought up was reversed on you the home grown , the AA , and the soul selling remarks ,
Doesn't matter to me where everyone came
From but CC holds a grudge against Carr who was there long ago , not me , i like carr and to each their own but I am sure they miss him just imagine had he stayed OMG ,
Just looked over the NHSCA sr nat invite for Stephen , 90% of either the champs or AAs Iin college competed there , just facts , and as for Fargo I have seem 4x state champs never AA there in four tries .what anyone does in college doesn't mean squat about now in HS that was the dumbest comment ever !
Greatest team ever isnt always measured by team points or state champs. Id take a homegrown team built from the ground up over a bunch of free agents. Kudos to coaches that dont sell their souls for titles like campbell county. The peoples champions will be union county this year.
High school all americans are great but theres a new all american tournament that pops up every
Year. Im running one next year. Dave Barnes never was a high school all american, just a d1 ncaa all american. Whats better? No brainer. Ryle has one of those might have another one with tj. Union will get the next one with caleb probably. Time will tell with cc.
Best ky team ever - 1993 woodford easily. Not a homer either.
Nice first post troll! What team that is predicted to be in the top 5 is completely homegrown? SK might be the only one but then again some of those boys may live closer to another school since I believe Kenton County has open enrollment. And I'm pretty sure Chamblee wasn't brought up through that program.
Heiro wrestled at Twenhofel (SK middle school feeder) so maybe not always but middle school on he was.Nice first post troll! What team that is predicted to be in the top 5 is completely homegrown? SK might be the only one but then again some of those boys may live closer to another school since I believe Kenton County has open enrollment. And I'm pretty sure Chamblee wasn't brought up through that program.
Being from Woodford County I am a little biased. However as many have pointed out it is impossible to argue with our track record prior to the last half decade. If you are going to argue that one of our teams is the best, which I agree with, I would think that Coach Carr's opinion is valuable in this discussion. He has maintained since I've known him, 15 years now, that the 1993 is by far the best team Woodford Co has produced. I don't remember the team even though I did attend the tournament at Atherton HS as a boy but he says that they would run through my senior year (2002, 3 champs, 5 finalists, 11 placers, 14 qualifiers), the 1997 and 2006 teams. Says they were just studs with attitude and technique. Just my and Coach Carr's opinions, for what they're worth.
That is very interesting. Coach Carr is wrestling royalty and his opinion should count more than just about anyone else's from KY because he's seen it all. I wrestled against that team and they did have swagger. Kemper, Hecker, Washington and Meckely were all studs. Kemper had a very successful college career. He never qualified for nationals, but was in the toughest weight class in the history of the MAC conference his senior year with 2 All Americans in his weight class including the national champ Dwight Gardner from OU. I think Meckley went to Penn State to wrestle for a while and Dion Washington was probably the best wrestler to never win state in Kentucky. I'm not for sure, but I think Joe Carr Jr. was an 8th grader that year and won state. If that's the case, they had 3 champs with Carr, Kemper and Hecker and 2 runners-up with Chapman and Washington. Definitely a solid team.
I could have swore I saw Hiero wearing Ryle colors way back when , but I may be wrong either way I know there was a time when Hiero and Cooper were not on the same team !!!!!
Again it doesn't matter either way it's just history ,
Nice post CCMS , I'm sure all those X and Trinitu home
Grown wrestlers over the last few yrs have made their home towns very very proud , Most of those private schools specialize in souls I wonder if monkey will accuse them of selling theirs .
So who won Jr High State ???????
mpire i'm surprised you remember what county your boys were born in. are you sure it was campbell? home grown? i thought they were colerainmoellerreadinggrahamspringborograntcounty boys? the real sin was making them wait? wow. i have now seen inside the mind of a mad man.
Obviously, I was very correct about your intentions. Way to confirm it! 
Yep I am crasy as a fox bro , and. I my boys never lived near or went to graham , but wrestled for Jordan's Loveland SW all stars and a whole lotta mo ,
And look where their road took them , exactly where i told everyone it would many yrs ago , lol
Good thing too most state championship teams or state dual champs in Cincy eh , ya dig where I'm comin from , shakers and movers monkey man
Hey remember the time SAM and ATM showed up to folkstyle youth state and cleaned up , yep I do , remember the time they showed up at Oldham I think and won KY state fr and gr titles , holy crap two state titles in one yr that's four freakin titles that's insane lol
Youth folkstyle fr and gr KY state champs and KY HS state champs , and every place you mentioned they kicked ass and helped their team become champions , and I took em there every gd day and everywhere else to train because I'm Definatly a mad man about winning ,
Either way , it's going to be good , I think X comes firing back at state But they will run into big guns at every turn , Woodfords lightweights may save CC and make all
My bragging come true lol
Boston is that you , pulling my chain acting like a monkey hahahahahbahahaha
mpire that was actually pretty funny. thanks for the laugh. maybe you aren't such a dick after all.
Put your kid up against mine on the mat and I'm sure I will live up to expectation ,
I just brag and have some fun , I like most everyone although your one of those cowardly couple post guys who make it obvious your a pot stirrer , enjoy regionals next week get ready for state and some
Fireworks .
Id take a homegrown team built from the ground up over a bunch of free agents.
Best ky team ever - 1993 woodford easily. Not a homer either.
Not absolutely sure about the1993 team. I don't feel like looking it up.
But Woodford County back in the 90 and 00 had more transfers than Trinity did. Anyone that was decent in the Frankfort/Lexington erea somehow made their way to Woodford Co. (Thats a little of a exaduration (sp), but you get my meaning)
Homegrown kids are a thing of the past. (homegrown meaning thery grew up through the system or stayed with the system their whole varsity career)
This is the age of win at all costs. Just look at out professional athletes. As baseball has said its the steroid era. It use to be you could name all the players on a team and their uniform number, because they stayed with the team forever. Those that still do today are far and few between and when they do they become hometown heroes. Look at UK basketball heck you have to learn a whole new set of names every year because of those $100 handshakes.
I also use to fight the homegrown fight back in the 90s 00s but its a losing cause. Much like the gladiators of Roman Empire our greatest heroes today are our athletes. And that is a shame. Maybe we are not noticing it but history may be repeating itself and this is the beginning of the fall of the U.S. empire, much like the fall of the Roman Empire.
OK i'm off my low horse and lets get back to having fun.
GOO out.
I think the 1994 and 1995 Sheldon Clark teams should get mentioned. If I remember correctly, the '95 team won state without a state champ, but had something like nine 3rd place finishers, when there were only 13 classes. The '94 team was lead by Bruce Stepp, a 3x state champ (189, 189, HWT) and MOW that year. Apparently he was Ohio State bound if not for a terrible ATV accident.
Yep I am crasy as a fox bro , and. I my boys never lived near or went to graham , but wrestled for Jordan's Loveland SW all stars and a whole lotta mo ,
And look where their road took them , exactly where i told everyone it would many yrs ago , lol
Good thing too most state championship teams or state dual champs in Cincy eh , ya dig where I'm comin from , shakers and movers monkey man
Hey remember the time SAM and ATM showed up to folkstyle youth state and cleaned up , yep I do , remember the time they showed up at Oldham I think and won KY state fr and gr titles , holy crap two state titles in one yr that's four freakin titles that's insane lol
Youth folkstyle fr and gr KY state champs and KY HS state champs , and every place you mentioned they kicked ass and helped their team become champions , and I took em there every gd day and everywhere else to train because I'm Definatly a mad man about winning ,
Either way , it's going to be good , I think X comes firing back at state But they will run into big guns at every turn , Woodfords lightweights may save CC and make all
My bragging come true lol
Boston is that you , pulling my chain acting like a monkey hahahahahbahahaha
Mpire,
I assure you that I am not monkeyfighter. You should have known that by the language monkey used online. It took enough effort to figure out how to sign in and get my old password. I have no clue who the best teams were and wont weigh in on that conversation. I think Kentucky had a lot of great teams and some outstanding individuals. I just hope I get the opportunitiy to work with some of the wrestlers all around Kentucky.
I do enjoy pulling your chain, but I like to save that up so I can do that in person. With the new CWA starting in Lexington soon, I am very excited about meeting a lot of these young guns but also can wait to see how it could improve Kentucky on a national level.
This is my first and last opinion. I am only talking what they did in highschool. Joe Carr Jr was the best wrestler to ever wrestle at the state event in Kentucky. He was a Dream team member, finalist at Fargo, multiple placer at Fargo. However, he was the second best wrestler to attend Woodford County. Does anyone know who the best was?
Ian Horn?
No...
I knew it wasn't you Boston I was breaking the tension thought you might get a kick out of it !!!!
And it was
Monkey fighter , you said money fighter , you sure that wasn't you !!!
Mpire,
No! I am Boston120. Mr. Knowlege see if you can figure out the trivia question.
Mpire,
I assure you that I am not monkeyfighter. You should have known that by the language monkey used online. It took enough effort to figure out how to sign in and get my old password. I have no clue who the best teams were and wont weigh in on that conversation. I think Kentucky had a lot of great teams and some outstanding individuals. I just hope I get the opportunitiy to work with some of the wrestlers all around Kentucky.
I do enjoy pulling your chain, but I like to save that up so I can do that in person. With the new CWA starting in Lexington soon, I am very excited about meeting a lot of these young guns but also can wait to see how it could improve Kentucky on a national level.
This is my first and last opinion. I am only talking what they did in highschool. Joe Carr Jr was the best wrestler to ever wrestle at the state event in Kentucky. He was a Dream team member, finalist at Fargo, multiple placer at Fargo. However, he was the second best wrestler to attend Woodford County. Does anyone know who the best was?
Jeff Fitch?
Randy Savage !!!!!
Mpire,
I assure you that I am not monkeyfighter. You should have known that by the language monkey used online. It took enough effort to figure out how to sign in and get my old password. I have no clue who the best teams were and wont weigh in on that conversation. I think Kentucky had a lot of great teams and some outstanding individuals. I just hope I get the opportunitiy to work with some of the wrestlers all around Kentucky.
I do enjoy pulling your chain, but I like to save that up so I can do that in person. With the new CWA starting in Lexington soon, I am very excited about meeting a lot of these young guns but also can wait to see how it could improve Kentucky on a national level.
This is my first and last opinion. I am only talking what they did in highschool. Joe Carr Jr was the best wrestler to ever wrestle at the state event in Kentucky. He was a Dream team member, finalist at Fargo, multiple placer at Fargo. However, he was the second best wrestler to attend Woodford County. Does anyone know who the best was?
Jimmy ?
ME
Joe Carr Sr. Before they had the ky st tourney?Mpire,
I assure you that I am not monkeyfighter. You should have known that by the language monkey used online. It took enough effort to figure out how to sign in and get my old password. I have no clue who the best teams were and wont weigh in on that conversation. I think Kentucky had a lot of great teams and some outstanding individuals. I just hope I get the opportunitiy to work with some of the wrestlers all around Kentucky.
I do enjoy pulling your chain, but I like to save that up so I can do that in person. With the new CWA starting in Lexington soon, I am very excited about meeting a lot of these young guns but also can wait to see how it could improve Kentucky on a national level.
This is my first and last opinion. I am only talking what they did in highschool. Joe Carr Jr was the best wrestler to ever wrestle at the state event in Kentucky. He was a Dream team member, finalist at Fargo, multiple placer at Fargo. However, he was the second best wrestler to attend Woodford County. Does anyone know who the best was?
I think VisionQuest nailed it!!!!
Jimmy Carr was a student at Woodford County 1973-1974 and the year before he was an Olympian. The KHSAA didnt allow him to compete that year and called him a professional. I think that was around the same time the University of Kentucky started their wrestling program. During that time Olympians didnt get paid and they were considered non professionals and couldnt be paid. I think Woodford might have won a state title during that era. Could you imagine having him in your lineup. Also Woodford was ranked in the top 25 in the country with those dominate teams in the 90's. When Hank Rippetoe was around all those kids traveled on a National level but you didnt hear as much about it because the limited internet coverage. Ian Horn, Joe Carr jr, Chris Dunn and group were beating National level guys. Like I said before, I am not informed enough to even guess who had the best team nor would I want to speculate. I think all mentioned teams above are worthy of being considered.
Mpire,
I think Randy Savage went to Graham.
Savage used to live in Louisville . And CC best team ever , And in two more yrs I will answer the best wrestler ever question , ATM
Boston120, I love the fact that you brought up Hank Rippetoe. He had a huge part in making sure Coach Carr and Coach Parks had success during the regular season. He was like the "silent partner". He made sure all of the kids that wanted to compete year around had a way. Sure miss his presence. I once showed up as a 7th grader to a FS tournament just to watch, and he wouldn't let me. I wasn't even sure what the heck freestyle was. He bought my AAU card, paid my entry fee, and found some shoes and a singlet for me to wear. I was amazed at his generousity. WC needs an ambassador like him in order to get back where they belong.
Sounds like a great person , love those 100% people
Mpire,
I dont doubt you for a bit that you want ATM to acheive greatness. He works hard and could become the best. However, let me help you set the bar for cash money.
242 HS wins
3X Junior Nationals AA at Fargo
1X Junior National Finalist
High school National Finalist
40 pins in 41 matches in a single season
Dream Team member
Dapper Dan
USA member vs Iowa
Notable wins his senior year
-Bryan Snyder NCAA champion at Nebraska
-Luke Becker NCAA champion at Minnesota
Please keep in mind this was a time when you only had really 2 national events and everyone was at those. Winning 4 or 5 Kentucky state titles is unreal but being on the dream team and wrestling at Dapper Dan and USA vs Iowa is something special. Oh, and losing a very close match in the finals at Fargo wasnt to bad either. Not bad for a Kentucky kid. I havent been around for a few years but if anyone in Kentucky had a better high school career in Kentucky please let me know and we can update the new bar.
I agree we didnt have Boston, ATM, Kevin, Blackwell, SAM or Ervins. They did have the Blacks, Carrs, Kyle R. and many others.
On a serious note; Kentucky has had some great individuals.
Mr. Boston, that's pretty cool you put up those stats about Joe Carr junior. The first time I seen Joe Carr Jr wrestle was in 1986 at the King of the Bluegrass tournament. He was maybe 50 lbs? I watched this little kid hit picture perfect moves and could hardly believe my eyes. I was brand new to wrestling, and was watching him on the mat with some other little kid (funny to think it might have been Ian Horn or someone like that). But he was hitting these throws and stuff and looked better than most high school kids at that tournament. If there had been a youtube back then, I would have posted a video of this. Seeing all those statistics refreshes my memory of just how good that kid was! The state has improved by leaps and bounds since then, but he was way ahead of his time for this state. He made all of us Ky wrestling fans very proud for a while.
Austin's wins were cut short last yr with Rules , they mean nothing to us anymore , he will however have quite a few pins , Austin has not lost a folkstyle match since the sixth grade to Bo in season and only one out of season to a HS kid Paddock i am
Sure you know his brother he has some nice credentials so far a nice NHSCA win and an OW
He will be at Fargo and he will AA before he is through , I have no doubt he can equal or better anyone , and he didn't start out at under 150 he was forced to go 220 and held his ground and still is , he is the biggest freshman state champ
Ever in this state and he had to beat out Seven srs and a returning state champ to get to the top of the podium , this is his state now ,
Mpire,
I dont doubt you for a bit that you want ATM to acheive greatness. He works hard and could become the best. However, let me help you set the bar for cash money.
242 HS wins
3X Junior Nationals AA at Fargo
1X Junior National Finalist
High school National Finalist
40 pins in 41 matches in a single season
Dream Team member
Dapper Dan
USA member vs Iowa
Notable wins his senior year
-Bryan Snyder NCAA champion at Nebraska
-Luke Becker NCAA champion at Minnesota
Please keep in mind this was a time when you only had really 2 national events and everyone was at those. Winning 4 or 5 Kentucky state titles is unreal but being on the dream team and wrestling at Dapper Dan and USA vs Iowa is something special. Oh, and losing a very close match in the finals at Fargo wasnt to bad either. Not bad for a Kentucky kid. I havent been around for a few years but if anyone in Kentucky had a better high school career in Kentucky please let me know and we can update the new bar.
I agree we didnt have Boston, ATM, Kevin, Blackwell, SAM or Ervins. They did have the Blacks, Carrs, Kyle R. and many others.
On a serious note; Kentucky has had some great individuals.
S T U D
Jimmy Carr was a student at Woodford County 1973-1974 and the year before he was an Olympian. The KHSAA didnt allow him to compete that year and called him a professional. I think that was around the same time the University of Kentucky started their wrestling program. During that time Olympians didnt get paid and they were considered non professionals and couldnt be paid. I think Woodford might have won a state title during that era. Could you imagine having him in your lineup. Also Woodford was ranked in the top 25 in the country with those dominate teams in the 90's. When Hank Rippetoe was around all those kids traveled on a National level but you didnt hear as much about it because the limited internet coverage. Ian Horn, Joe Carr jr, Chris Dunn and group were beating National level guys. Like I said before, I am not informed enough to even guess who had the best team nor would I want to speculate. I think all mentioned teams above are worthy of being considered.
Mpire,
I think Randy Savage went to Graham.
Awesome information...thanks for sharing.
I agree that is a great story, I had never heard before.
Theres a video of Jimmy Carr wrestling Zink, Canada.
Jimmy looked to be the real deal.
He would have made a great team even better.
Mpire,
Here is a list of the guys on the dream team. This was a very good team.
Mpire,
I dont doubt you for a bit that you want ATM to acheive greatness. He works hard and could become the best. However, let me help you set the bar for cash money.
242 HS wins
3X Junior Nationals AA at Fargo
1X Junior National Finalist
High school National Finalist
40 pins in 41 matches in a single season
Dream Team member
Dapper Dan
USA member vs Iowa
Notable wins his senior year
-Bryan Snyder NCAA champion at Nebraska
-Luke Becker NCAA champion at Minnesota
Please keep in mind this was a time when you only had really 2 national events and everyone was at those. Winning 4 or 5 Kentucky state titles is unreal but being on the dream team and wrestling at Dapper Dan and USA vs Iowa is something special. Oh, and losing a very close match in the finals at Fargo wasnt to bad either. Not bad for a Kentucky kid. I havent been around for a few years but if anyone in Kentucky had a better high school career in Kentucky please let me know and we can update the new bar.
I agree we didnt have Boston, ATM, Kevin, Blackwell, SAM or Ervins. They did have the Blacks, Carrs, Kyle R. and many others.
On a serious note; Kentucky has had some great individuals.
Pretty hard to top this! GOAT
That's very impressive and a huge standout ,a great accomishment and record in the sport , particularly the Fargo placings , A while back and at a lower weight than who I expect to surpass it is wrestling now , of course there will or will not be more credentials added in a few weeks , but I take ATMs credentials so far , dream team is a big step , I think ATM plans on Fargo and Nhsca where he hopes for another win , that would certainly keep him on track to have one of the best HS careers in the state ever , I think he sets the bar for the upper weights for sure , becomes CC first 4 xer if he gets it done this yr and kys first 4 xer at 220 and is ky first High School National Champ and OW winner , As for some past talk and CCs Best ever , I think Stephen showed what he was made of this yr and ends that debate with a 3 rd title .
Mpire, have u guys desided on Flo yet? Would love to see SAM, ATM, Boston, Clay, Ervin, Fauz, PH and a whole slu of kids make the trip and represent the KY!
SAM and ATM are doing NHSCA s Fausz and ATM may do both , I would pick NHSCA over Flow for the fact that Austin has won Stephen has placed and they will get good seeds as well as the tournaments History and their team goes there and has done well ,I don't dig the whole political side and story of the tourneys they should not be the same week , I think they are off set some this yr . flow does a lot for the sport I think the two organizations should work together for the better of the sport . I also am more concerned with Fargo for ATM he has to stay on track to be top dog and in order to do that e needs some Fargo cred to his name and his brother holds it over his head .
Stephen is going 145 at nhsca plus his weight , not sure if or what he does for Fargo hope he gives it a shot even of his heart isn't all way in it he can help his brother and everyone else
I've never been to Fargo, I'm hoping to make my 1st trip this year. Also planning on Flo. Maybe we can coordinate some workouts. We are working on getting IWIN JR in shape to compete. He needs that kind of exposure.
Sure thing and Fargo is a new world it's insane , takes a lot of work some of the best of the best cannot hang there .
Joe Carr Jr is definitely the best individual to come from Kentucky. I know he never was an AA in college and Ruschell and Barnes were but nobody knows that Joe tore his ACL his freshman year at WVU. This caused him to change his stance completely from a right to a left leg lead; he was never the same after that. It didn't help that he drew TJ Williams two years in a row first round at NCAAs. For those who don't know Williams was a 2x NCAA champ from Iowa who actually has their best ever winning percentage with only one loss.
Anyway hey Boston, you should ask Coach Carr if he still believes that the 93 is the best Woodford has ever had. Also his opinion on the best team ever from Kentucky.
South Oldham 2003 Team.
Woodford Co '06 vs South Oldham '03. What's it gonna take to make this happen?! Certainly there is a computer programmer among us that can simulate this titanic dual!
Woodford Co '06 vs South Oldham '03. What's it gonna take to make this happen?! Certainly there is a computer programmer among us that can simulate this titanic dual!
Sounds like a job for Ranger! just kidding
CC 13 vs Union Co 13 ,two weeks
I agree with MPire. Nine days and counting.