Here are some parent observations from MS State from a lay perspective.  

1.  The meet was very well run, with little downtime.  Only issue is the same with every other tournament...with the advent of the internet, there is no way that a tournament should not start by 9:30 a.m.  Wrestling is the most spectator adverse sport. 

2.  MS Medals are incredible.  KHSAA should definitely take a cue from the MS State and give medals that reflect the achievement of the kids and don't look like every other medal the kids win throughout the year.  

3.  MS State has outgrown Montgomery County.  There were parents cussing at each other because they couldn't see and because they were too tightly packed in the facility.  I was all over the upper level and I saw heated exchanges five or six times.  The school police officer was extremely rude, but this was probably due more to trying to rope people in to an area that was too tight than anything else.  Once the event was in the later rounds, it was great, but the early rounds were not good for spectators.  I have been to six MS State events and it has gotten snugger every time since it has been at Montgomery County.  

4.  Maybe like at some other tourneys there should be two MOW's, one for light weights and one for heavyweights.  Coltyn Keirns was a man among boys but because he was a heavy, he had no shot at winning the award, despite pinning every kid, and going to the second period only once.  If that is not MOW, I don't know what is.

5.  Finals singlets for finalists were great.  Hats off to the person who came up with that idea.

Agree with all your points. They did an awesome job picking out the medals. Keirns definitely deserved the MOW. The only thing is the location. It's tight in that areana for the first few rounds, but where else could it be held? It's not big enough for the horse park or Frankfort.

I felt the tournament ran very smooth. The competition was fantastic. Keeping the parents up top is a great idea. Hat's off to wrestlers, coaches, and refs! As Ron Burgandy woulld say, "you kept it classy!"

Dare I suggest it should be a 2 day event? Run round 1 and a consolation round on Friday night and that "frees up" a lot of extra space since the 0-2 wrestlers and/or their parents can leave if they want to (depending on the team, of course).

There's a great reason the NFHS rules have a 5 match per day limit. That's a rule KSWA ignores and it should be listed as an exception in the bylaws, which it's now btw, rule 14 and 14.1. A two day tournament would take care of this issue.

Other middle school state tournaments in nearby states have two day state tournaments. Maybe it's time for us to do the same?

It was rather hard to see anything on the projector.

Dare I suggest it should be a 2 day event? Run round 1 and a consolation round on Friday night and that "frees up" a lot of extra space since the 0-2 wrestlers and/or their parents can leave if they want to (depending on the team, of course).

There's a great reason the NFHS rules have a 5 match per day limit. That's a rule KSWA ignores and it should be listed as an exception in the bylaws, which it's now btw, rule 14 and 14.1. A two day tournament would take care of this issue.

Other middle school state tournaments in nearby states have two day state tournaments. Maybe it's time for us to do the same?

Ding ding ding ...we have a winna here

Much sympathy for the Union and Johnson County folks who have to drive 8 hours to get anywhere .

However, when 90% of the wrestlers live within 1 hour of the NKy and Louisville areas isn't it a bit odd that they all drive somewhere east of Lexington for the state tournament?

I just saw a thread on here where a coach and his sons were in a very serious accident returning home from State. That could happen to anyone and anywhere, but lets minimize the travel time for the most people. Hopefully the KSWA can find a place between NKy and Louisville that works.

Frankfort Civic Center! Perfect location. Central KY, plenty of space, keep it a 1 day tournament. 2 day tournaments means more parents have to spend more $$$$.

Frankfort Civic Center! Perfect location. Central KY, plenty of space, keep it a 1 day tournament. 2 day tournaments means more parents have to spend more $$$$.

Perhaps, but 5 and potentially 6 bouts in a day is not good for children. And sitting in a gym for 12+ hours is absurd. Run it in 2 days like everyone else does.

Perhaps, but 5 and potentially 6 bouts in a day is not good for children. And sitting in a gym for 12+ hours is absurd. Run it in 2 days like everyone else does.[/quote Easy fix. You lose first round your out! That leaves 8 kids to battle for 1st thru 8th. Indiana does it this way, maybe we should too so we can be like everyone else.

I like the 2 day event ideal. Lise first round and out is a lil harsh.

Who was in the wreck?

Indiana probably does it that way in order to abide by the established rule set by NFHS. First round losers are the only ones in danger of the 5 match limit.

Meanwhile KSWA purports to follow NFHS (and even lists the exceptions where they can't/won't such as weight classes etc.), but ignores the 5 match rule.

When we ignore the rules and then cram 6 matches in it hurts the sport and the kids.

Ok. Enough. I do not see a 2 day event happening. If we tried to wrestle on Friday kids would have to miss school which I can't see being supported by many folks. Not to mention the expense. Not gonna happen. Second 5 match rule. You are technically correct. It is not spelled out in the bylaws. Oversight by prior administration. It will be addressed with the next publication. But it was well communicated and discussed that we will no longer follow the 5 match rule. It was proposed discussed and voted on by the coaches of this association. Yes it goes against the nfhs. But I believe the folks at USA wrestling know a little bit about this sport. So following their guidelines is a pretty safe approach.

Ok. Enough. I do not see a 2 day event happening. If we tried to wrestle on Friday kids would have to miss school which I can't see being supported by many folks. Not to mention the expense. Not gonna happen. Second 5 match rule. You are technically correct. It is not spelled out in the bylaws. Oversight by prior administration. It will be addressed with the next publication. But it was well communicated and discussed that we will no longer follow the 5 match rule. It was proposed discussed and voted on by the coaches of this association. Yes it goes against the nfhs. But I believe the folks at USA wrestling know a little bit about this sport. So following their guidelines is a pretty safe approach.

I'm sorry. I thought this was a discussion forum. I thought it was a place to discuss ideas and debate things in order to possibly make them better. "Enough"? I beg your forgiveness, your majesty.

You keep harping on the 5 match rule like we are breaking the law.

Remember I am the grand poobah.

Remember I am the grand poobah.

Maybe its time for a coup.

Go for it

You know where to find me

the only problem is that you are using NFHS ceft. referees and going by USA wrestling by laws and rules. You are really not covered by liability if someone is hurt. You need to make sure all referees have USA wrestling cards

Bocowrestling - good feedback. I was actually a little surprised we started as early as we did yesterday. There were an unusually high number of changes to the brackets this year (both prior to Saturday and that morning). We roll up alternates, even from other regions to fill the brackets. We allowed some extra tine for coaches to review the brackets to help ensure there are no errors. The coaches meeting is a little longer due to the number of people involved and the points of emphasis. Getting table workers going is also an issue at times.

John Roth (coach at Walton and KSWA vp) deserves much of the credit on the medals. He also had a lot of input on the singlets.

Kwoa and Keith smith have helped us make sure officials are USA certified. We are covered under USA wrestling and all post season events are sanctioned and covered.

I believe they hold elections every 2 years. If you don't like the way things are run then run for an office and make the changes. People need to get involved and not just complain. Just my 2 cents.

Exactly.

Unfortunately you usually can't get those complainers to put their coke and hot dogs down long enough to even work a score table.

I'm all for feedback. Ask any middle school coach. I ask and ask and ask for them to provide feedback on what we can do better. The vast majority of them understand what goes into making this event and organization run.

Ranger, there is no doubt that you have done a lot of work for the sport, but don't for a minute let that fact cloud that you are extremely replaceable. Don't come o n here demanding anything. Bottom line is there is a problem that needs fixed. We are discussing solutions. That's what we do. So enjoy another dominate performance from yesterday, but come back to earth soon and realize that you are dealing with grown adults not middle school kids.

First off I never claimed to be the end all be all. My friend raidercoach dubbed me he grand poobah. In fact I have sought out replacements for my position. Ms coaches across the state know exactly how many were interested.

As far as the dominating performance that is all the kids. Ask anyone that knows me will tell you that I give all the credit to those boys on the mat. They put in the hrs and hrs on the mat and the weight room. I do my small part to help guide them and hopefully prepare them as best I can. But they do the hard part and deserve the credit.

As for discussing solutions a more effective approach is for coaches to participate in the association meetings.

Let me be the first to say that I have been involved with 3 different Presidents at the Middle School level (Pat Lee, Tim Lange, and Jason Moore). All of these men did an outstanding job but the later of the three has done more for the state in my time than any other. Pat can take a lot of credit for helping the develope the middle school state tournament and the organization. Pat did an outstanding job getting information and results out to the state. Before Pat, the state tournament was more of a Region 6 JV event. When I competed in middle school there was 5 kids in my weight class. It was the only matches us middle school kids got all year. Tim did an oustanding job when struck with adversity. His communication skills were second to none. However, Jason and his staff have done an amazing job with medals, organization, state duals/tournament ect... Fact is the no body wants to step up and run the organization and that is a fact. Jason will be greatly missed once he decides to step down and the state will take a hit. Jason, thank you for all you have done with the organization. We all know that we can improve and I second that you have always asked for others opinion. There needs to be no change to the current format. There will come a day when we out grow Montgomery county but those days are not anytime soon. No need to change the format to two days either. Schools will not support that and you could lose support from Administration in the building which is exactly what wrestling doesnt need.

Iwin , how are things looking for your Mat Demon , good kid keep him focused and drilling this week like to see him get it done . That was a bad @$$ ring you had , ATM wants his pimped up now lol Always room for improvement at all levels and forums are just for the discussion of that ,don't know a thing about MS state except I hope to see my boy there one day , sounds like a good tourny with some heartbreak and surprises as always . On another note , having duals for youth on the same Day as HS is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of , all those kids misses some of the beat HS wrestling they would have ever seen and it hurt the $ for HS duals !!as well as youth !!! A giant blunder , heard all the excuses. None good enough

I don't doubt for a minute that you have a genuine love and dedication to the sport. Just rubbed me the wrong way when it felt like you were giving demands. Putting down people, (hotdog comment) doesn't carry alot of weight either. IMO, a 2 day tournament is going overboard. People arguing the 5 match rule is a little silly too. There has to be a happy median. If we work together without the demands and put downs, I feel like we will get much further. Congrats to you and your boys on another State Championship.

Why not move youth state. and have middle school state the day after high school instead?

I just want to thank Ranger and the rest of the middle school assoc. for another great tourney. I don't think anyone has a clue the time and coordination it takes to pull off these events. I know everyone in the assoc. has real jobs and families. I guarantee that both suffer this time of year.  I think we need to go ahead and set that date for the next association meeting, sounds like everyone is again ready to get together and make plans to better this event.   Thanks again for your efforts they are much appreciated by me.

                                                                                                                                                            Joe B.

Why not move youth state. and have middle school state the day after high school instead?

The youth state tourney is pushing 1,000 kids.  I believe ms has 240.  Youth really needs the space

Wow.... Just thought we was discussing options? I thought the tourny was great. Just saw people saying to crowded and thought 2 day event would be nice. But yea the schools wouldnt like that to much. You know it isn't basketball lol. But I would like to thank all of the people that make it happen. I know how much work it takes just to coach. But to organize and keep the association going "hats off to you"

Ranger--I've reached out to you directly several times and have been ignored and disrespected. Not sure why, nothing is personal.

Finding better ways to do things is not an insult to how they've been done in the past. If the majority of folks around the state want it the way it is, so be it. I just think you lose support for the sport by making it miserable for siblings, single parents, and family by having these marathon 16 man bracket tournaments in a single day. Maybe a 2 day tournament works everywhere else but here.

I'm just offering suggestions. If I came across in any other way I miscommunicated. I've been a ref, coach and wrestled. I know a little about wrestling. I also know you get more done by synergy and working together. Disagreements are fine, but to discount others with a wave of the hand is foolish.

Thanks cougar. I appreciate the comments. All of those who lead the organization face different challenges and opportunities. Pat laid the foundation and deserves a huge amount of credit for that. Those early days really laid the groundwork for the progress we have seen even at the high school level of wrestling today. Lange was so organized and so businesslike in the way he got things done. Nothing flashy but set things up so today we are really able to focus on making improvements and maximizing the enjoyment for the kids.

I never meant to make any demands. I just hate it when people get on here and harp on things they don't understand and don't do their due diligence to get all of the right info and throw out statements like they know it all. And the hot dog comment may have offended a few but if so they likely fit the bill. So many people like to whine and cry and complain but won't lift a finger to help or offer any solutions.

Yes ms state is 240 kids. I like the thought of shifting the schedule but the youth guys have worked too hard to set up their event to attempt to mess with that.

I never meant to make any demands. I just hate it when people get on here and harp on things they don't understand and don't do their due diligence to get all of the right info and throw out statements like they know it all. And the hot dog comment may have offended a few but if so they likely fit the bill. So many people like to whine and cry and complain but won't lift a finger to help or offer any solutions.

Yes ms state is 240 kids. I like the thought of shifting the schedule but the youth guys have worked too hard to set up their event to attempt to mess with that.

Wow, dude.

Nka - unfortunately I tend to ignore my ims on this site. With all of the events going on and so many coming in I honestly can't keep up. Talk to your coach and maybe a few of your parents. I am glad to discuss any ideas with anyone who approaches me. But I will admit I don't get too excited about ms ideas that come up on this site. I will read to hopefully learn something but unless people and coaches participate with the association and get involved it is hard to get anything accomplished.

That's what I'm saying Ranger. You can't even apologize for an offensive statement without throwing in another put down. You haven't a clue the time and effort I've given to wrestling. You assume that because I'm posting on here I'm someone who fusses and don't fix. Quit thinking that you and your admin are the only ones who have a hand in this great sport. As president of the association, you need to be seen and rarely heard. You are just as guilty of whining and complaining as anyone. Instead of "whining" for change, you whine to protect your position. You take such offence to anyone with an opinion that differs from yours. I'm not even really arguing with the policies, I'm calling you out on your words and behavior.

Exactly. You have a problem with me. And no matter what my response you take it as offensive. Get over it.

I'm sorry if that comes across as a demand.

Haha! It didn't come across as a demand. I only take.orders from leaders, something that your clearly not. Your northern hospitality sucks. I wish we were in a coaches meeting so I could light you up right in front of everyone. You should be sitting back and taking notes. Instead, your on here arguing with us low class no nobrainers who can't put our hotdogs down. Just like any politician, your time is up. You are the weakest link.....good bye.

May 18 2:00 pm at Campbell county middle school.

Bring it on

I thought the tournament ran pretty good, thank you to whomever ran it.  I thought the referees were fairly consistent overall, no one will ever be completely satisfied with them.  I believe the weather may have had something to do with some of the spectators emotions, but hey, wrestling happens during the winter months there is always the possibility of snow.  There were several really great wrestling matches up there yesterday, I enjoyed watching those young men leave everything on the mat.

I believe this tournament was better than last years, I stayed through the 113 final and left an hour and a half earlier than last year after the 105 match.  4 hour drive was my one complaint, but this is not just any tournament.  Great job directors! 

Anybody that knows Ranger at all, knows that he will listen to ANY suggestion especially if it's brought up in the right way. So many people make complaints yet our Coaches meetings in the Spring and Fall have very few coaches attend and it's usually the same faces. I felt the tournament was well ran as usual. When it's ran so well, people will find the smallest reasons to complain or point out anything that's not perfect. If people in the stands would follow directions and not stand in front of the rails, it would be much better for fans/family. But as usual, many fans/family don't follow directions well and make it difficult for others to enjoy the matches. The association does a phenomenal job and I don't see anyone running for President anytime soon because this act would be hard to follow. Props to Ranger and ALL of the association officers for a great job!

I didn't mean to start a fight.  You guys sound like the parents who were fighting in the stands.  Everyone needs to quit screwing with Ranger so he can update the high school rankings.  

Eight man brackets at Regions are fantastic. We finished our region this year by 4 p.m.  As a matter of fact, after region, I had time to go eat, drive an hour and a half to the Dragon and still watched my son's last three matches of the day.  There could be a number of ways to get state to eight man brackets.  1) Top two at Region; or 2) have Big State and Small State with only 8 man brackets each.  Common thread - 8 man brackets.  Anyone in the state could be home before 10 p.m.

Two days of state is not cost effective.  Our team cannot afford hotels or travel expenses.   

Iwin , how are things looking for your Mat Demon , good kid keep him focused and drilling this week like to see him get it done . That was a bad @$$ ring you had , ATM wants his pimped up now lol Always room for improvement at all levels and forums are just for the discussion of that ,don't know a thing about MS state except I hope to see my boy there one day , sounds like a good tourny with some heartbreak and surprises as always . On another note , having duals for youth on the sameDay as HS is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of , all those kids misses some of the beat HS wrestling they would have ever seen and it hurt the $ for HS duals !!as well as youth !!! A giant blunder , heard all the excuses. None good enough

He's training like a madman. It always helps to have a train to Boston. Lol. Thanks for the encouragement. ATM should get any type of ring he wants, the kid is money!! We don't mess around, XXXL with bling. Lol. See u guys in a couple of weeks. Smash em all up North!!

This is much better than the HS forum ,

If the state takes over there will

Probably be more restrictions , clubs allow

More freedom

Usually , as for the OAC that's a good group of people running that and the state in Ohio has nothing to do with it , they run the reg season but OAC is a different organization ,

The different state tournys are good and bad , good there is more wrestling , bad it created a question of who is legit , answer being OAC , older more established,

CC is tough they win everything , very impressive , congrats to the little guys , hope they never get screwed when they get older by some bias ref in a tourny up north so some a holes can build the rep of a kid who doesn't even go to school up , and then have people from their own school back up the bad guys because they like rubbing elbows with big shots ,

How lucky people are to be surrounded by such loyalty particularly to their very possible soon to be first 3xer,and now undisputed Champion of Champions in NKY ,

Sometimes simply remaining quiet is the best reply because one no one is always right and two sometimes your wrong to begin with ,

Stepping on toes left and right leaves a lot of sore toes ,

I didn't mean to start a fight. You guys sound like the parents who were fighting in the stands. Everyone needs to quit screwing with Ranger so he can update the high school rankings.

Eight man brackets at Regions are fantastic. We finished our region this year by 4 p.m. As a matter of fact, after region, I had time to go eat, drive an hour and a half to the Dragon and still watched my son's last three matches of the day. There could be a number of ways to get state to eight man brackets. 1) Top two at Region; or 2) have Big State and Small State with only 8 man brackets each. Common thread - 8 man brackets. Anyone in the state could be home before 10 p.m.

Two days of state is not cost effective. Our team cannot afford hotels or travel expenses.

Boco - you didn't start a thing. It's all good. As far as 8 man brackets the competition is too great for that. I brought a region #4 who placed 3rd and lost to the champ 10-9. We need to have as many quality kids as possible competing at the event. As far as making the dragon ... That was more a function of a badly run tournament there vs benefits of 8 man bracket.

Boco - you didn't start a thing. It's all good. As far as 8 man brackets the competition is too great for that. I brought a region #4 who placed 3rd and lost to the champ 10-9. We need to have as many quality kids as possible competing at the event. As far as making the dragon ... That was more a function of a badly run tournament there vs benefits of 8 man bracket.

I agree Ranger. The competition is getting better and it's to good for the MS level to go to 8 man brackets. Our region 4 3 seed (Blue) wrestled 2 of the top kids in the 70lb class to great matches. We need the 16 men brackets because with the competition right now any one could beat any one.

Ranger, there is no doubt that you have done a lot of work for the sport, but don't for a minute let that fact cloud that you are extremely replaceable. Don't come o n here demanding anything. Bottom line is there is a problem that needs fixed. We are discussing solutions. That's what we do. So enjoy another dominate performance from yesterday, but come back to earth soon and realize that you are dealing with grown adults not middle school kids.

May 18 2:00 pm at Campbell county middle school.

Bring it on

IWIN - I'm guessing you're going to put your money where your mouth is and put you name in the hat for the next KSWA President position? Can you do us all a favor and put your real name out here for all of us and your credentials along with what you have done to promote the sport of wrestling in KY or any state for that matter. I want to see if you are in this to really help MS wrestling or just someone who got there feelings hurt and can't find anyone else that will listen to them. Put up or shut up....as they say.

Ranger--I've reached out to you directly several times and have been ignored and disrespected. Not sure why, nothing is personal.

Finding better ways to do things is not an insult to how they've been done in the past. If the majority of folks around the state want it the way it is, so be it. I just think you lose support for the sport by making it miserable for siblings, single parents, and family by having these marathon 16 man bracket tournaments in a single day. Maybe a 2 day tournament works everywhere else but here.

I'm just offering suggestions. If I came across in any other way I miscommunicated. I've been a ref, coach and wrestled. I know a little about wrestling. I also know you get more done by synergy and working together. Disagreements are fine, but to discount others with a wave of the hand is foolish.

Nkawtg135 - you sound like a little kid that got his/her feelings hurt. If you have ref'd, coached, wrestled than you know getting involved the right way is better that complaining the way you do. Just saying. In wrestling....we don't accept excuses.

I love how brave people are over a computer.

Perhaps, but 5 and potentially 6 bouts in a day is not good for children. And sitting in a gym for 12+ hours is absurd. Run it in 2 days like everyone else does.

I'd like to see your research on why 5 or 6 matches is not good for children. IMO..if your kid can't wrestle 5-6 matches (36 mins max, with OT)in a 12+ hour day, then you right....your kid probably doesn't need to be wrestling because he can't handlle what it takes to be a great wrestler. Your kid wouldn't make it at our practices...for sure. There are many other sports that are different than wrestling that I'm sure your kid would be great at. I appreciate well founded comments and the sarcastic ones just as much as the next person, but come on. Let's see the research rather than random idiotic posts that seem to be the norm from you.

I love how brave people are over a computer.

Brave, smart, enabled, empowered... The list is pretty long.

So, seriously....you putting your name in the hat? Are you brave enough?

IWIN - I know who you are and your boys are amazing. Just not sure you'd win the KSWA MS Pres vote.

I love how brave people are over a computer.

If this is in reference to my post, I wasn't being brave. You simply "wished" for a coaches meeting to put me in my place so I provided the information.

Does anyone know when the rest of the world will see the completed state brackets? thanks

I'd like to see your research on why 5 or 6 matches is not good for children. IMO..if your kid can't wrestle 5-6 matches (36 mins max, with OT)in a 12+ hour day, then you right....your kid probably doesn't need to be wrestling because he can't handlle what it takes to be a great wrestler. Your kid wouldn't make it at our practices...for sure. There are many other sports that are different than wrestling that I'm sure your kid would be great at. I appreciate well founded comments and the sarcastic ones just as much as the next person, but come on. Let's see the research rather than random idiotic posts that seem to be the norm from you.

Wow. Way to raise the bar of productive discourse. Must have learned that from your parents.

I wasn't a Jordan Burroughs but I think I know wrestling and what it takes to succeed. I earned a DI scholarship and wrestled the very best and somehow I know that wasn't you.

I'll continue to voice my opinion. If you don't like it, tough. Why be such a total toolbar about it?

Oh snap

Wow. Way to raise the bar of productive discourse. Must have learned that from your parents.

I wasn't a Jordan Burroughs but I think I know wrestling and what it takes to succeed. I earned a DI scholarship and wrestled the very best and somehow I know that wasn't you.

I'll continue to voice my opinion. If you don't like it, tough. Why be such a total toolbar about it?

No well founded research on the whole 5/6 match rule? Ah, so now I see....you're an ex-DI wrestler. That proves that everyone should agree with you or you have all the answers. Well said. I bet you never wrestled more than 4 matches back in your day. Oh, that's right....you didn't have to, you won all 4 and every title in a 16 man bracket and never had to wrestle your ass off for that 6th match to medal. Darn, I'm suprised that type of whinning would come from an ex-DI wrestler. I don't have to put my accolades on this site to justify my involvement in this sport in KY. I do it the right way without trying to discredit the hard work of a very select group of hardworking individuals do on this site. If you want to be involved, try not being a toolbar...as you say and get involved. Nobody owes anybody anything. There's my opinion...if you don't like it, as you say...tough.

I love how brave people are over a computer.

seems like the only one on here hidding behind the computer is you.  I think the MS state tourney in KY is ran ten times better than the vaunted OAC in Ohio.  Atleast the one in KY isnt a giant money grab. 

The NFHS rulemakers for wrestling are the leaders in the sport. No, I do not have the research results they used to determine the 5 match rule. I trust them that they know what they were doing though. Part of their justification was that they didn't think it wise for HS kids who were still maturing to wrestle more than 5 times in a day. They didn't want 16 man brackets done in a day.

As Ranger stated earlier the exception was not included in the bylaws due to an oversight. I'm cool with that. If most people want to blow it off, so be it.

Look guys, my coup comment was meant as a joke to start out with. If anyone looks through my post history, I've given all types of credit and thanks to Ranger. I only got upset when I felt like people were getting diminished and disrespected. As far as my brave comment, it was meant for all of us. We can get on here and say really negative things that most of us wouldn't say in person. I have no ambition of being the prez. No disrespect, but I have some bigger fish to fry. I'll help anyway I can though. Sorry about the negativety, I'm over it.

No well founded research on the whole 5/6 match rule? Ah, so now I see....you're an ex-DI wrestler. That proves that everyone should agree with you or you have all the answers. Well said. I bet you never wrestled more than 4 matches back in your day. Oh, that's right....you didn't have to, you won all 4 and every title in a 16 man bracket and never had to wrestle your ass off for that 6th match to medal. Darn, I'm suprised that type of whinning would come from an ex-DI wrestler. I don't have to put my accolades on this site to justify my involvement in this sport in KY. I do it the right way without trying to discredit the hard work of a very select group of hardworking individuals do on this site. If you want to be involved, try not being a toolbar...as you say and get involved. Nobody owes anybody anything. There's my opinion...if you don't like it, as you say...tough.

I'm speculating, but usually these decisions are based on liability and insurance reasons versus scientific evidence on how many matches a kid should endure in a day.

I'm aware of NFHS and what they do. Appears you are turning to constructive responses and it's much appreciated rather than the reverse. It appears that the KSWA doesn't agree with the NFHS and voted to go with USA Wrestling to alleviate the 5 match rule issue.<br /><br />IMO, there are ways of expressing ones opinion that are thoughtful and helpful to a cause rather than trying to undermine the very thing that people have worked so hard to build. Just saying.

I was at the coaches meeting where we voted on removing the five match rule.  If i remember right there were three options.  1 change to USA wrestling rules and eliminate the five match rule.  2 switch to a two day tourney.  3 a different format where a first round losers could only get seventh place.  The two day tourney wasnt possible for a few reasons and no one cared for the third option so the voted went to getting rid of the five match rule.  I personally dont see an issue with kids wrestling six matches.  They are only three 1:30 periods im sure most coaches push them harder than that at practice.

I'm speculating, but usually these decisions are based on liability and insurance reasons versus scientific evidence on how many matches a kid should endure in a day.

You are probably right, but that's why the KSWA is insured through USAW. I am kind of curious though....how many matches do kids wrestle in Cadet/Juniors FS/GR at Fargo in a day or even at the big state FS/GR tournaments? More than 5? To double? Just curious.

I was at the coaches meeting where we voted on removing the five match rule. If i remember right there were three options. 1 change to USA wrestling rules and eliminate the five match rule. 2 switch to a two day tourney. 3 a different format where a first round losers could only get seventh place. The two day tourney wasnt possible for a few reasons and no one cared for the third option so the voted went to getting rid of the five match rule. I personally dont see an issue with kids wrestling six matches. They are only three 1:30 periods im sure most coaches push them harder than that at practice.

I agree. I voted the same way.

5 matches should be the limit. After a kid has been in the gym for 12 hours, they don't care if they come in 5th or 6th place.

Just my 2 cents as they say but I've heard alot of talk how coaches would like the nfhs to change the 5 match rule. And also in youth they may wrestle 4 macthes in 1/2hr or less Also would like to say congrats to Ranger for a job well done coaching and presidenting.

5 matches should be the limit. After a kid has been in the gym for 12 hours, they don't care if they come in 5th or 6th place.

The KSWA experience has been quite the opposite. Hence the change to USA so those kids can wrestle for 5th/6th.

5 matches should be the limit. After a kid has been in the gym for 12 hours, they don't care if they come in 5th or 6th place.

Not sure what kid you're talking about, but I can tell you that my son is still ticked 6 years later that his 5th/6th place match was decided by a coin flip.  Most kids with any desire want to finish what they start, jmo.  MS administration, you did a great thing going to USA Wrestling.  Don't pay any attention to any of this bull.  The current system is much better than a coin flip.  Everyone that has been around KY MS wrestling knows that a 2 day MS tourney just isn't going to fly so short of adding another week of post season with a semi state, the current setup is much better.

We originally abided by the 5 match rule because our refs were certified through nfhs. Even if our event was sanctioned by usaw some refs very adamantly refused to ref a tournament that went over 5 matches. It is good you guys have gotten past this because we were never able to back in the old days. For every one person who will get upset about allowing kids to wrestle 6 matches there are 10 people who would be upset if you flipped a coin to decide 6th place.

Ranger and JR, fantastic job on those finals singlets. I seen a pic on facebook of a ryle kid posing in his finals singlet downstate. Very cool idea. He was smiling ear to ear.

Thanks pioneer. That was one of my highlights for the weekend. Seeing the faces on those kids in those singlets.

Are the singlets a idea that will stick around for years to come?

5 matches should be the limit. After a kid has been in the gym for 12 hours, they don't care if they come in 5th or 6th place.

My son is much more tired after his wrestling practice then he would be wrestling 6 matches over 7-8 or more hours.

Thanks pioneer. That was one of my highlights for the weekend. Seeing the faces on those kids in those singlets.

I bet it was ranger. I dont know if you remember my original bling bling flava flav style medals but Ill always remember some of the kids faces as we wheeled out those gigantic medals at state. Making it special for the kids is the reward you get for having everyone take swings at you online.

I bet it was ranger. I dont know if you remember my original bling bling flava flav style medals but Ill always remember some of the kids faces as we wheeled out those gigantic medals at state. Making it special for the kids is the reward you get for having everyone take swings at you online.

Oh yeah. Just changed them this year. Those were great. We just blinged them up a little more.

Have a 1st and 4th hanging up here. Love em.

Are the singlets a idea that will stick around for years to come?

The plan is to continue it. Grapplemonster sponsored most of the cost and plans to continue it.

The singlets and newly redesigned medals were top notch. Nice touch!

The singlets and newly redesigned medals were top notch. Nice touch!

Agree 100% !! High school should take that into consideration.

Can anyone post a picture of the new medals?

The plan is to continue it. Grapplemonster sponsored most of the cost and plans to continue it.

Great event , I have been around ms wrestling for a few years now and the state tournament gets better each year. The singlets and medals were great. Nice job done by all.

After reading this I have a headache.

One thing that surprises me about the 5 match rule change is that you are able to get referrees. See what a lot (not all) of people do not know is that the 5 match rule has nothing to do with the coaches or associations. It is all about the liability of the referrees. I would be shocked that you would have officials willing to put their livlihoods on the line so a kid can get his/her fifth match to determine if they are 5th or 6th. That may be harsh but we live in a sue happy society now.

I do recommend that most of you on here who have problems with things attend the meeting and come with solutions. I know Ranger very well and know he is willing to listen. I learned along time ago that everyone has a problem something but the only true way to fix it is to provide ideas and solutions rather than just complain.

Finally, I know this is a public forum for everyone to put out their feelings and opinions. As someone who has run many things in wrestling I use this as a way to see what issues people have. I have been told that I am piece of a trash on here, I run terrible tournaments, etc. The bottom line is I challenge throwing stones to bring solutions to the table. More will get done that way rather than putting people down while hiding behind a screen name.

OK....of my Soap Box.

PS IWIN....is your bigger fish to fry the HS Coaches Association....Just Kidding.

Coach McCoy - simple answer. USA certification for the officials.