which one do you see doing better over the next few years cumberlands tough but (cam) is brought in some young guys that will help them out alot like

jacob murton

jarius murton

eithen henley

bo ersay

derek scott

tyler woods

mike clark

daniel rucker

scott yates

lori lawson

thats just a few they could really be in the topp of the nations ranks in a couple years i will have to say campbellsville

Both have a strong wrestling program but i would also have to side with camobellsville

I don't think Campbellsville has the experience to finish above Cumberland. Especially in tournaments, Cumberland has too many all-Americans and 3 that are capable of winning a national championship in Brad Cooper, Returning champion Delrico Choates, and Runner-up Eric Flinchum. That's racking up some serious points in tournaments!

I agree that Cumberlands may have the upper hand next year but I believe Campbellsville is on the right track and only a year or two from being very competitive with them for the "Bluegrass Braggin Rights"

i know cumberland will graduate cooper flincham and delrico then (cam)  will move on top i think if delrico goes 133 i think murton might give him a pretty tough match could be interesting i saw  murton over the summer at camp and he is an animal could be a national champ as a freshmen

I think both programs are great . and cambellsville is on the up and coming. But CUMberland has just as good recruits with a stronger team . I think that CAM  will get to that level in the near future and we will have some great duell  matchups. Also I think jacob has a great chance of winning nationals one day but not over delrico choates or as a freshman

i wouldnt be to sure about that my moneys on murton he is just as good with college guys as he is with others maybe noit as dominate but i think that he can beat him assuming there at the same wieght

Overtimeking, have you seen him wrestle quality collegiate wrestlers that you are basing your opinion on?

Overtimeking, have you seen him wrestle quality collegiate wrestlers that you are basing your opinion on?

I agree.  We all thought Jarius was dominant, but we saw (or read about) what happened when he ran into Mr. Cooper.  Jacob is a great wrestler (one of the best ever in KY) and will compete for a championship before he graduates, but I think he still has some work to do.

the boys told me that little murton wrestled a tough kid from Ohio University and the coach from UTC and some other division I guys at the Campbellsville Camp. He did very well from what I'm told. The UTC coach thought he was better than any of their new recruits that he has wrestled with.

after reading an Ohio forum it looks like MR COOPER, may be dealing with another campbellsville wrestler besides Jairus next year. these ohio people are telling us that zach flake will major decision cooper. my research shows that flake was an ohio state champ, SR. National runner up and junior college National champ. Sounds pretty good, but can he really major cooper? that is hard to believe. If any of this is true campbellsville is sounding tougher and tougher....updated line ups anybody?

Battle of the bluegrass! this is going to be a fun year to watch!

after reading an Ohio forum it looks like MR COOPER, may be dealing with another campbellsville wrestler besides Jairus next year. these ohio people are telling us that zach flake will major decision cooper. my research shows that flake was an ohio state champ, SR. National runner up and junior college National champ. Sounds pretty good, but can he really major cooper? that is hard to believe. If any of this is true campbellsville is sounding tougher and tougher....updated line ups anybody?

Battle of the bluegrass! this is going to be a fun year to watch!

Major Cooper?  I don't think so.

major him... :lol:, he wont be able to beat him let alone majore him...and as for litte murton he wont get close to touching delrico choates either.......i put my money on cumberland....

so this ohio kid is no good? are junior college national champions usually not as good as naia runner ups or something. I think flake major decisioned his guy for the juco national title. . flake was a SR. National runner up. How did cooper do at Sr. nationals. i know that was h.s., but how else can we compare the two. any similar opponents or are you just saying cooper is the best and you don't even know anything about this ohio kid.

so this ohio kid is no good? are junior college national champions usually not as good as naia runner ups or something. I think flake major decisioned his guy for the juco national title. . flake was a SR. National runner up. How did cooper do at Sr. nationals. i know that was h.s., but how else can we compare the two. any similar opponents or are you just saying cooper is the best and you don't even know anything about this ohio kid.

I'm just saying that it is a pretty bold statement to say someone is going to major Cooper.  He walked through the tournament until the finals where he lost 3-2.  I'm not saying Cooper will definitely beat this guy, but to dismiss Cooper as having no chance seems crazy.  What did the Flake guy do in '05-'06?

NJCAA Champ last year!

2x placer in OH in High School

Obviously a good wrestler but I think he will need to prove himself at NAIA

going from high school to college is a big difference and you gotta figure that cooper has the college experience where this kid is just coming out of high school....i still have to put my money on cooper all of the way this year.

Flake is a NJCAA (National Junior College Athletic Association) Champion from last season. He obviously has alot of talent to win that title. I am not that familiar with the difference in caliber of wrestling from JUCO to NAIA but I am guessing it is a step up for him like someone going from NAIA to DIII to DII to D1. He is moving up from the Junior College ranks (2 yr schools) to NAIA (4 yr schools) meaning older wrestlers and probably wrestlers with higher caliber wrestling experience during their collegiate carreers. He wrestled for Lakota West in High School in Cincinatti. He may have wrestled some of the KY kids in the past. Does anyone know if he and Cooper have met before?

I would think the first thing on his mind is to make the Campbellsville lineup. I heard it will be very competitive for starting spots.

We met hid dad and his younger brother Alex at the Border Wars tournament a few years ago, very nice folks. Alex finished 5th last year in OH at 130 for Lakota West in Cincinatti. A good wrestling family just across the river from N. KY.

Should be fun to keep up with his progress, good luck to him!

It could add to the Cumberland vs Campbellsville matchup this season 

i meet flake at camp this summer he is not going to beat cooper he couldnt beat jaius murton at camp and i know there is a big step up from junior collage to naia

I'm goin' on a little tangent.I won't get in the argument about who would win, but I've seen a couple of times on here comments that junior college wrestling isn't as tough as the other divisions. This is untrue.

Many aa's and national champs were juco products..a good wrestler is a good wrestler despite division.

one ex.- brock lesnar was a juco champ who won an ncaa title. many others.

I wouldnt give up on the idea of Delricho going to 133 and losing to Jake,Del is a quality wrestler and one of the best underdogs I've seen in a while,reminder the 125 national champion coming up to 133 isnt even a state champion,but a state placer 3 or 4x's in Florida,the one he beat in the finals was a state champion,not 2 take anything away from Jake,Only freshmen I have seen so far come straight into college and dominate is Cael,and the Schlatters and maybe others in the D-1 level,Jake will definetly All American if not better,but he will have to learn on the college level as well,Just like Jairus is doing right now,and just like another CU wrestler at 174 is the coolest guy around david clemens

Cooper will not lose in the finals to someone out of the JUCO level unless that guy is really experienced but with some work with those JUCO champions who knows what will turn out,But I dont see Cooper or Del losing to anyone at a freshmen level or anything else

103 martin over Carr

112 Parks over Sullivan

119 Chiu over Ervin

125 ???

130 warner over veach

135 Peace over Howard

140 Ashbrook over Jackson

145 courtney over banks

152 cooper over Wheeler

160 wolsifer over Barnhill

171 Rupp over Baker

189 Starks over Jones

215 Dockery over Watson

285 Byrd over Young

Flake is a NJCAA (National Junior College Athletic Association) Champion from last season. He obviously has alot of talent to win that title. I am not that familiar with the difference in caliber of wrestling from JUCO to NAIA but I am guessing it is a step up for him like someone going from NAIA to DIII to DII to D1. He is moving up from the Junior College ranks (2 yr schools) to NAIA (4 yr schools) meaning older wrestlers and probably wrestlers with higher caliber wrestling experience during their collegiate carreers. He wrestled for Lakota West in High School in Cincinatti. He may have wrestled some of the KY kids in the past. Does anyone know if he and Cooper have met before?

I would think the first thing on his mind is to make the Campbellsville lineup. I heard it will be very competitive for starting spots.

We met hid dad and his younger brother Alex at the Border Wars tournament a few years ago, very nice folks. Alex finished 5th last year in OH at 130 for Lakota West in Cincinatti. A good wrestling family just across the river from N. KY.

Should be fun to keep up with his progress, good luck to him!

It could add to the Cumberland vs Campbellsville matchup this season 

Good point but reminder that Rulon Gardner was a JUCO champion,he may have not won a Division 1 title BUT made all american but he did go on 2 win a Olympic Gold Medal...so my point is a JUCO transfer can be just as good as a D-1 transfer it all goes back 2 how much you want it

Noone is saying Juco wrestlers cant win it all at another level. But overall, the different levels or divisions get more difficult up to the D1 level.

Its an interesting topic in itself, how many wrestlers have moved up from a lower division to win D1 titles?

We do know NCAA I is the best......after that you can't say the pecking order is NCAA II then NCAA III then NAIA etc....and from what I am reading you can't put JUCO behind all those groups. JUCO's are only 2 year schools so they can't be grouped with the others.

It looks like most Junior college national champions or All-Amercian transfer to Division I or II schools and the ones that do go NAIA usually do very well. some results from last years NAIA National tournament on intermat and the Naia website suggest that to win a NAIA national title you increase your chances by landing one of the top JUCO national champs or all americans. here is what I am reading:

Last years NAIA national tournment results from the naia website:

Burk Barnes 3rd place at 125........former Junior college all american

Jimmy Rollins National Champ at 133.......former Junior College All- american

Mark Dickman National Champ at 149......former Junior college all american

Mike Rio National Champ at 157 former Junior College National champ

Tyson Springer National runner up at 165 former Junior college all american

willie parks national champ 184 former junior college national champ

Team National Champion DANA College had A LOT of junior college transfers listed on there website. DANA college, Lindenwood and others beat several division I, II and III teams and wrestlers. Cumberland and Campbellsville have been beating lots of NCAA II and III schools also.

based on what I am finding out.........the people on this board don't know anything about Junior college wrestling and how good they are.

it looks like at least half of all the NAIA National Champions came from the junior college level........that is amazing and that tells me that CU and UOC better start trying to recruit those boys if they want to bring the national title to kentucky!

I am pulling for cooper because he is a ky boy, but the ohio people say Flake has always been better than cooper and he is still better than cooper. I guess we will see.

Matmom,

Thats a great post, great info!!

The success of JUCO at the other 4 yr divisions makes me wonder if the kids get more wrestling at the JUCO level in their first two years of school that prepares them better for their 3rd and 4th years. Compared to attending a 4 yr school for the entire time and possibly not getting as many matches due to the fact it may take them a few years to work into the varsity lineup.

I know that the DII champs used to be invited to the DI championships but I dont think that happens anymore. Do you know if any of the DII kids ever won a D1 championship?

Great Scott matmom! You're husband has to be the luckiest man alive to have such a "wrestle-smart" bride. The reason most of us dads post all of this stuff on here is because we can't really talk to our wives on quite the same level about all the techno stuff. I do know one thing for sure tho'...them wrestler's mommas sure out cheer us at the matches and for whatever reason, them wrestlers seem to love their mommas a little more than us dad's...well, at least momma's get more hugs!

  Jack Cuvo was a 2 time National Champ in Div.1 for D2 East Stroudsburg(88,89)at 118.

Karl Monaco made the finals in 1989 at 150lbs.(took 2nd).Monaco was from Montclair St., a D3 school.

  Possibly the best college wrestler ever was Carlton Haselrig(Hwt.) who actually was a

6 time national champ(3D2,3D1 titles) from Pitt-Johnstown was the last D2 person, to win.

On a side note, Haselrig wrestled one yr. in high school, then after college was a Pro Bowler with the Steelers within, like, 3yrs. and didn't play football in college. I think these are each amazing accomplishments, and then to think they were done by one person is incredible.

  So, from looking at the brackets there were 6 AA's from 1989 alone not at Div.1 schools.

1991 had Dan Russell ( 4xD2 NC)from Portland St. place 4th.

  From looking at the brackets I believe 1991 is the last yr. champions from other divisions

were invited to the Div.1 tourney.

  Kelvin Jackson was 1995 Div.1 Champ at 118 lbs. and he wrestled for Lassen Junior College in California.

Here is the possible match-up between UOTC and CU.

        UOTC                        CU                   

125-(delricho/Brooks- vs.  Childres - Pin/tech or major for UOTC depending on Brooks or Richo

133-Delricho/Brooks  vs.  Murton-    Major for Richo or close match for Brooks

141-Cooper              vs. Flake/Murton or whomever Major/tech/pin for Cooper

149-Center              vs. Murton/Flake major for Center i he gets on top where he is nasty

157-Germaine/Stephenson vs. clemons ? If Clemons is here he gets major/tech/pin

165- Stephenson/Simmons vs. ?/Clemons Again if Clemons is here its another tech/pin/major

174- Waller  vs. ?/Clemons as stated earlier but dont see him this heavy. Waller beats anybody.

184- Price    vs. ?  I dont see anybody from CU beating Price who is very dangerous.

197-Flinchum/Prophet vs. Cant think of name but was AA. If Flinchum a major for UOTC if Prophet will be a great match.

Heavy- Flinchum/ Prophet vs. ? Will take a really reallly good heavy to beat Flinchum or Prophet.

Oh yeah Prophet is JUCO AA.

The way I see it UOTC wins this year hands down CU may get two or three matches. In the future CU may make this a little closer match but UOTC always has some great recruits and just seems to reload not go empty.

Tell me what you think.

125 brooks could have a better match then what he thinksa derrick scott is tough

133 murton descions del rico he is that good

141 cooper descions murton but i think murton will do better then expected

149 chris seta is an animal he will win his match

157 clemens will win his match tough wrestler and nice guy

165 simmons descion linker

174 chris branam over waller

184 deadrick over price

197 jackson over ?????????

HWT flincham over whoever

camb will suprise this year coach james will turn it up a notch for them and they will make a good showing and i would like to see cooper vs seta good match

The cooper ceta match up would be a great thing to see,  But cooper wins this 9 out 10 times.  As far a flake maybe he will be good as far a beating cooper not a chance..

Rico getting beat will be unheard of this year.

line up for the year

125 Brooks

133 Delrico choaltes

141 Brad Cooper

      tim Mitchem

149 dustin centers

157 blake Germanie

165 Waller/ simmions

174 Waller/ simmions

184 Angelo Price

197 flinchem

hwt ken Prophet

but we are so deep any of these could change for our team this year...  we will just see when the season startes.

125 brooks could have a better match then what he thinksa derrick scott is tough

133 murton descions del rico he is that good

141 cooper descions murton but i think murton will do better then expected

149 chris seta is an animal he will win his match

157 clemens will win his match tough wrestler and nice guy

165 simmons descion linker

174 chris branam over waller

184 deadrick over price

197 jackson over ?????????

HWT flincham over whoever

camb will suprise this year coach james will turn it up a notch for them and they will make a good showing and i would like to see cooper vs seta good match

Are you kidding about Murton and Richo you do realize Richo is a national champion in College and Murton didnt even place at the high school level so That answers that.

Lets not forget Cooper Teched Murton 15-0 last year should I say it again 15-0

Seta Is going 157 so I hear but if he goes 149 yes he will win but less then major.

165 clemons probably wins

174 Waller could handle Todd allen last year in the room but redshirted and Allen Teched and majored Branham so that speeks for its self.

184 Again are you kidding about Deadrick over Price he got beat twice last year by Hernandez and Hernandez dont even belong on the same mat as Price.

197- Will be good match with Prophet and Jackson or he gets Majored by flinchum.

HWT- Again if Flinchum goes here he wins hands down if Prophet goes here he wins.

So there you have it again.

125 Brooks vs..... striplin beat chidester in last years ranking match for CU  and  they have a transfer from Dana College that is suppose to be good. Sounds like Derek Scott will be redshirting, but you never know. Who is Brooks for UOC? the brooks that wrestled 133 last year is the only one I can find. don't think he wrestled at nationals? I will give the edge to CU here.

133 Delrico choaltes vs. Kaci Payne who lost in the All-American round at nationals or freshman Jacob Murton or UTC transfer Malone. give the edge to UOC here. Big advantage UOC!

141 Brad Cooper vs. Junior college national champion Zach flake. I say this is a toss up and can't pick either one at this time.

      tim Mitchem...if mitchem is in this will be a major decision or pin for CU. the fact that Mitchem is even listed on here says that something is not right for UOC at this weight. Cooper may have other plans this year?? just a hunch...

149 dustin centers vs. Jairus Murton...our upset special pick.. I think big murton looked really good this summer and is my pick to win this one. he will all-american this year.

157 blake Germanie vs. Chris Seta.....campbellsville wins this one.

165 Waller/ simmions...vs. David Clemens....campbellsville wins this one

174 Waller/ simmions vs John Lowery, Mike Dipaul or Chris Branam...UOC wins this one. But lowery has the background to really surprise...

184 Angelo Price vs. Greg Howell or Josh Deadrick.....not sure here..Price could not start last year and Deadrick won 1 match at Nationals. slight edge to deadrick who did win the last meeting over the UOC starter that transferred out.

197 flinchem vs. Jackson...I see that flinchum beat Jackson 6-2 in a duel last year and I believe Jackson was a freshman. Look for big improvement from this kid. Flinchum still the favorite, but he can't win the title at this weight and 285 is wide open so look for him at heavyweight. Jackson beats whoever....... another win for campbellsville

hwt ken Prophet....I say flinchum here........and he beats whoever CU has and flinchum wins the national title.

In a duel I say UOC wins the first one and CU wins the 2nd one.

At the National tournament I think Campbellsville will beat UOC this year based on the fact that they have more returning guys that wrestled at the national tournament and they have more room for improvement with being a new team and many young wrestlers. UOC will be the same UOC and look to lose all the firepower after flinchum and delrico graduate. Might have already lost the firepower of cooper. 

UOC has 5 or 6 All- Americans 133,141,149,174,197,285..3 finalist again..older

CU looks to have AA at 133 and 141 plus, seta -clemens -jairus -jackson..all young and improving

sidenotes from the dbrown post about jake murton not placing at sr. nationals

Jacob Murton easily beat the HS SR. national champion last year at the beast of the east tournament... that kid signed with nebraska.

125 Brooks vs..... striplin beat chidester in last years ranking match for CU  and   they have a transfer from Dana College that is suppose to be good. Sounds like Derek Scott will be redshirting, but you never know. Who is Brooks for UOC? the brooks that wrestled 133 last year is the only one I can find. don't think he wrestled at nationals? I will give the edge to CU here.

133 Delrico choaltes vs. Kaci Payne who lost in the All-American round at nationals or freshman Jacob Murton or UTC transfer Malone. give the edge to UOC here. Big advantage UOC!

141 Brad Cooper vs. Junior college national champion Zach flake. I say this is a toss up and can't pick either one at this time.

      tim Mitchem...if mitchem is in this will be a major decision or pin for CU. the fact that Mitchem is even listed on here says that something is not right for UOC at this weight. Cooper may have other plans this year?? just a hunch...

149 dustin centers vs. Jairus Murton...our upset special pick.. I think big murton looked really good this summer and is my pick to win this one. he will all-american this year.

157 blake Germanie vs. Chris Seta.....campbellsville wins this one.

165 Waller/ simmions...vs. David Clemens....campbellsville wins this one

174 Waller/ simmions vs John Lowery, Mike Dipaul or Chris Branam...UOC wins this one. But lowery has the background to really surprise...

184 Angelo Price vs. Greg Howell or Josh Deadrick.....not sure here..Price could not start last year and Deadrick won 1 match at Nationals. slight edge to deadrick who did win the last meeting over the UOC starter that transferred out.

197 flinchem vs. Jackson...I see that flinchum beat Jackson 6-2 in a duel last year and I believe Jackson was a freshman. Look for big improvement from this kid. Flinchum still the favorite, but he can't win the title at this weight and 285 is wide open so look for him at heavyweight. Jackson beats whoever....... another win for campbellsville

hwt ken Prophet....I say flinchum here........and he beats whoever CU has and flinchum wins the national title.

In a duel I say UOC wins the first one and CU wins the 2nd one.

At the National tournament I think Campbellsville will beat UOC this year based on the fact that they have more returning guys that wrestled at the national tournament and they have more room for improvement with being a new team and many young wrestlers. UOC will be the same UOC and look to lose all the firepower after flinchum and delrico graduate. Might have already lost the firepower of cooper. 

UOC has 5 or 6 All- Americans 133,141,149,174,197,285..3 finalist again..older

CU looks to have AA at 133 and 141 plus, seta -clemens -jairus -jackson..all young and improving

sidenotes from the dbrown post about jake murton not placing at sr. nationals

Jacob Murton easily beat the HS SR. national champion last year at the beast of the east tournament... that kid signed with nebraska.

I am basing my prediction on mainly past results that I can find.

http://www.intermatwrestle.com/college/Results/February/edsouth.html

the results from this link. scroll down to 165...Charles Simmons will not win vs. CU. He didn't even place at this late season tournament and CU had 2 guys in the finals.

If Simmons can't place above Lowery he stands no chance against Clemens. In that first duel Clemens Major decisioned the UOC wrestler, so I don't think UOC won every match.

Germaine must be really good, but he never wrestles in competition. Can't find him in 1 open tournament over the past 2 years. Strange. I will take your word for it, but still don't think he beats Chris Seta or David Clemens. Clemens will beat any UOC wrestler whatever weight they put him at.

Based on the following results your team will most likely get beat by campbellsville this year. A 11 point difference in team score with a 2nd year program is not a good sign for UOC. They will more than likely beat you this year. You are to blind to see it and won't realize what has been happening until its to late.

http://www.intermatwrestle.com/college/Results/February/naiaeastscores.pdf

I am basing my prediction on mainly past results that I can find.

http://www.intermatwrestle.com/college/Results/February/edsouth.html

the results from this link. scroll down to 165...Charles Simmons will not win vs. CU. He didn't even place at this late season tournament and CU had 2 guys in the finals.

If Simmons can't place above Lowery he stands no chance against Clemens. In that first duel Clemens Major decisioned the UOC wrestler, so I don't think UOC won every match.

Germaine must be really good, but he never wrestles in competition. Can't find him in 1 open tournament over the past 2 years. Strange. I will take your word for it, but still don't think he beats Chris Seta or David Clemens. Clemens will beat any UOC wrestler whatever weight they put him at.

Based on the following results your team will most likely get beat by campbellsville this year. A 11 point difference in team score with a 2nd year program is not a good sign for UOC. They will more than likely beat you this year. You are to blind to see it and won't realize what has been happening until its to late.

http://www.intermatwrestle.com/college/Results/February/naiaeastscores.pdf

simmons is a very tough wrestler....and germaine beats seta and clemons hands down....i have wrestled with th UOC kids and i know how they wrestle and i have also seen the CU kids wrestle and i still say cumberland wins.....but we'll see what happens when the dual comes around....

I am basing my prediction on mainly past results that I can find.

http://www.intermatwrestle.com/college/Results/February/edsouth.html

the results from this link. scroll down to 165...Charles Simmons will not win vs. CU. He didn't even place at this late season tournament and CU had 2 guys in the finals.

If Simmons can't place above Lowery he stands no chance against Clemens. In that first duel Clemens Major decisioned the UOC wrestler, so I don't think UOC won every match.

Germaine must be really good, but he never wrestles in competition. Can't find him in 1 open tournament over the past 2 years. Strange. I will take your word for it, but still don't think he beats Chris Seta or David Clemens. Clemens will beat any UOC wrestler whatever weight they put him at.

Based on the following results your team will most likely get beat by campbellsville this year. A 11 point difference in team score with a 2nd year program is not a good sign for UOC. They will more than likely beat you this year. You are to blind to see it and won't realize what has been happening until its to late.

http://www.intermatwrestle.com/college/Results/February/naiaeastscores.pdf

matmom - didn't UOC take CU behind the woodshed and thrash them like little kids last year?  all of your assumptions seem to be talking about how much better and improved your kids are going to be next year.....do you think UOC is sitting around playing checkers?  i'm sure UOC kids will be improved too.  i'm not sure if you're from this state or not, it's one thing to root for your school (cu) but you seem to be rooting against UOC and looking forward to their fall.  i seriously doubt CU will go from losing by what, 38 pts last year to beating them by 11.  give me a break!  brad cooper losing to flake?  hmmmm, ok maybe possible...but don't bet on it....but if that were to happen, it wouldn't say much for little murton since he lost to brad like 15-0. 

Matmom: I am a big Jacob Murton fan, but your statement was that" he easily beat the sr nations champion at the beast of the east and now that kid signed with Nebraska".....Who was this hs sr nationals champ that Murton beat and what was the score?

You can look up the Sr. National Results and you will see that Jordan Burroughs won the Sr. Nationals.

135 pounds

In a match that made you drop your jaw, Ryan Cubberly of Pemberville Eastwood defeated Adam Pittman of Great Bridge 3-2. What was odd about it, was that Pittman was riding Cubberly tough and cut him loose with :03 left in the match, giving Cubberly the winning point as he sat sprawled on his belly. He'll take it. Cubberly will face Blair's Max Shanaman, a 10-2 winner of Collins Hill (Ga.) senior Thomas Knapp. Zack Kemmerer of Upper Perk advanced past Shawn Harris of St. Edward 5-3. The real surprise for many might be the dominance of Jacob Murton, a 13-8 winner of Jordan Burroughs of Winslow Township. Murton, from Lawrence County, Ky., powered past Burroughs with a series of tough tilts and a very tough leg-ride. He's the #2 seed, but people know him now

Pioneer Pride

I did not say that CU would beat UOC by 11 points. I posted a link to the East Regional tournament that showed the results. UOC only beat CU by 11 points. I was not just assuming that Simmons would not beat the CU wrestlers. I posted results from the edsouth tourament and he did not place and 2 CU wrestlers met in the finals of that tournament. I am just backing up my statement with facts and I am not cheering for the downfall of UOC. They have been one of the top teams in the NAIA and they will stay that way.

Here are the results of the last duel posted on Intermat. Yes it does look like a pretty good beating. Once you get past the first 3 weights where CU is reported to have all new guys this year, it was a lot of close matches. Like I said before I wouldn't feel real good about beating a 2nd year program by 18 points in a duel and 11 points at the regionals. Common sense just tells a person that the younger team has more room for improvement than the established team. Plus you factor in that it looks like CU has really outrecruited UOC and you have a pretty good match. UOC has 2 or 3 new recruits posted on the internet. CU has signed a Junior college national champion, Murton, a couple transfers etc..

What should it matter if I am from Ky or Ohio or wherever? It seems like you would have more state pride and pull for the in state Murtons and not bash them or highlight when they have not done so well. They are young college wrestlers that will do well in time. I am just posting an opinion and backing it up with rational thinking or factual evidence. If a 2nd year program can get 3 wins in the duel and recruit well, improve what they have and then you factor in that the proven team is graduating people. Again, you have a good match. All they need is 5 wins and you have a split duel. If Flinchume moves up CU could get 4 wins. If new recruits Flake or Murton do anything. Lots of scenarios where CU passes up UOC this year. 

Would be interested to hear what matches Germaine has won in college since he has been on the UOC roster for at least 2 years, but has no results anywhere accept beating Nate Jolly one time. Or even what he did in High School. Sounds like a really good wrestler to beat All Americans Seta and Clemens.

CumberlandColKY  28- Campbellsville  10

Location:

2/9/2006

Starting Weight Class:  125 

Weight Winning Wreslter Win Type Losing Wrestler Score

125 Choates, Delrico(CumberlandColKY ) MD Chidester, John(Campbellsville) 

133 Brooks, Mikael(CumberlandColKY ) FALL talley, justin(Campbellsville) 

141 Cooper, Brad(CumberlandColKY ) FALL Norred, Kyle(Campbellsville) 

149 Seta, Chris(Campbellsville) MD Center, Dustin(CumberlandColKY ) 10-2

157 clemens, David(Campbellsville) DEC Boggs, Josh(CumberlandColKY ) 7-3

165 Lowery, john(Campbellsville) DEC Hutchison, Tommy(CumberlandColKY ) 6-5

174 Allen, Todd(CumberlandColKY ) DEC Branam, Chris(Campbellsville) 7-3

184 Hernandez, Eddie(CumberlandColKY ) DEC Deadrick, Josh(Campbellsville) 5-4

197 Flinchum, Eric(CumberlandColKY ) DEC jackson, Glenn(Campbellsville) 7-2

285 Bishop, Matt(CumberlandColKY ) DEC brown, chad(Campbellsville) 6-3

I love this! Talking about college wrestling used to be non-existant.

Either way, good luck to both teams.

Its funny how everyone is already predicting line-ups. Cumberlands is really deep at alot of weights. There are names of really good Cumberland wrestlers that haven'teven been mentioned.

Center was a freshmen last year, I'm sure he will be alot better this year. Ask him?

Robert Germaine- Redshirt last season, Got hit by lightning this summer and is now faster .

Aymen Habiballah- straight from Morocco,

Damion Stephenson- From Jamaica, Remember Thelton Detry I think this guy was cloned from Detry's DNA.

Marvin Lopez- From Cuba, He's related to Mijian Lopez of Cuba who stopped 2000 Olympic Champion Rulon Gardner"

Travis Lovett- This guy is a REAL American Indian. He even has feathers! got to be tough!

Shane St. Dennis - This guy has been working as a tatoo artist but decided to wrestle again.

Cornelius Wiggins- I heard he's been training all summer by beating up rednecks in cages.

Jacob Teuschler- Redshirted last season, don't forget this name. although it is hard to spell.

Christopher Sanders- all I can say is this senior wears hulk hogan headbands!

Matthew Reis- He's a Senior, he spent the entire summer training on a island. He's like Tarzan!

Angelo Price- He quit basketball to wrestle, I think he is one of Wilt Chamberlins many sons. He sure acts like it!  looks like it too. Will be a big add to the team. Oh, He was ALOT better than Hernandez.

Arthur Agazarm - His name is Arthur!!!!! hahaha

Joshua Perry - his Girlfriend won the US OPEN. Just to date her he's going to have to step it up.

Wesley Newton- must be 40 years old "Named after Wesley Snipes"

Joshua Combs- Related to Sean P.Diddy Combs

I just wanted to let you all know that Coach James told me personally that Chidester is not wrestling this year, he has already completed his degree and is going to start working on his graduate program, so that spot (125) is up for grabs and he has several good kids competing for the spot, though none (I don't believe) with any college experience. Just for your information.

Pioneer Pride

I did not say that CU would beat UOC by 11 points. I posted a link to the East Regional tournament that showed the results. UOC only beat CU by 11 points. I was not just assuming that Simmons would not beat the CU wrestlers. I posted results from the edsouth tourament and he did not place and 2 CU wrestlers met in the finals of that tournament. I am just backing up my statement with facts and I am not cheering for the downfall of UOC. They have been one of the top teams in the NAIA and they will stay that way.

Here are the results of the last duel posted on Intermat. Yes it does look like a pretty good beating. Once you get past the first 3 weights where CU is reported to have all new guys this year, it was a lot of close matches. Like I said before I wouldn't feel real good about beating a 2nd year program by 18 points in a duel and 11 points at the regionals. Common sense just tells a person that the younger team has more room for improvement than the established team. Plus you factor in that it looks like CU has really outrecruited UOC and you have a pretty good match. UOC has 2 or 3 new recruits posted on the internet. CU has signed a Junior college national champion, Murton, a couple transfers etc..

What should it matter if I am from Ky or Ohio or wherever? It seems like you would have more state pride and pull for the in state Murtons and not bash them or highlight when they have not done so well. They are young college wrestlers that will do well in time. I am just posting an opinion and backing it up with rational thinking or factual evidence. If a 2nd year program can get 3 wins in the duel and recruit well, improve what they have and then you factor in that the proven team is graduating people. Again, you have a good match. All they need is 5 wins and you have a split duel. If Flinchume moves up CU could get 4 wins. If new recruits Flake or Murton do anything. Lots of scenarios where CU passes up UOC this year. 

Would be interested to hear what matches Germaine has won in college since he has been on the UOC roster for at least 2 years, but has no results anywhere accept beating Nate Jolly one time. Or even what he did in High School. Sounds like a really good wrestler to beat All Americans Seta and Clemens.

CumberlandColKY  28- Campbellsville  10

Location:

2/9/2006

Starting Weight Class:  125 

Weight Winning Wreslter Win Type Losing Wrestler Score

125 Choates, Delrico(CumberlandColKY ) MD Chidester, John(Campbellsville) 

133 Brooks, Mikael(CumberlandColKY ) FALL talley, justin(Campbellsville) 

141 Cooper, Brad(CumberlandColKY ) FALL Norred, Kyle(Campbellsville) 

149 Seta, Chris(Campbellsville) MD Center, Dustin(CumberlandColKY ) 10-2

157 clemens, David(Campbellsville) DEC Boggs, Josh(CumberlandColKY ) 7-3

165 Lowery, john(Campbellsville) DEC Hutchison, Tommy(CumberlandColKY ) 6-5

174 Allen, Todd(CumberlandColKY ) DEC Branam, Chris(Campbellsville) 7-3

184 Hernandez, Eddie(CumberlandColKY ) DEC Deadrick, Josh(Campbellsville) 5-4

197 Flinchum, Eric(CumberlandColKY ) DEC jackson, Glenn(Campbellsville) 7-2

285 Bishop, Matt(CumberlandColKY ) DEC brown, chad(Campbellsville) 6-3

matmom - i misread what you said about the 11 points or misunderstood.  i apologize for that. 

what it matters to me whether you're from Ky or Ohio or wherever....is we have 2 colleges in this state that offer wrestling.  It probably wouldn't matter to anyone outside this state if Cumberland started sucking and they dropped their program.  If you were from say Ohio who probably has 100 college wrestling programs....if 1 school started sucking (and I'm definitely not saying Cumberland is sucking) but if 1 school started "declining" let's say, it wouldn't be a big deal.  If you're from Kentucky, where we haven't had college wrestling for a long, long time.....and all of a sudden here's Cumberland....and they're doing good (great even)....that's great for us here.  You're making comments like "only beating a 2nd year program by 11 is not a good sign for UOC".....personally, that really strikes a nerve with me.  You could say I'm extra sensitive about both college programs.  You keep bringing up how close the 2 teams will be this year and how CU will beat them this year...that's great they've worked that hard to catch up to UOC.....but i find it hard to believe after they got beat 42-4 last year that they've made up that much ground.  I'm sure it will be closer, but I would guess UOC will be just better than CU for at least another year.  You seem to keep making these assumptions about new recruits making a huge difference.  I think if you guys have new recruits in your starting lineup...you're a ways away from Cumberland.

I want to see both these programs THRIVE.  I could care less who wins between the 2.  I am also very happy/proud of Jacob Murton and wish him and his brother and any other Ky wrestler wrestling college nothing but the very best.  I hope he's an AA from here on out.  I brought up Cooper teching him not to rub his nose in it....but just to give you a reality check....college experience matters a LOT more than what you did in h.s.  Brad's a beast...one of the best ever from this state.  A lot of your assumptions about this match are based on new recruits being good, or transfers being good.....I'll believe it when i see it.

Its funny how everyone is already predicting line-ups. Cumberlands is really deep at alot of weights. There are names of really good Cumberland wrestlers that haven'teven been mentioned.

Center was a freshmen last year, I'm sure he will be alot better this year. Ask him?

Robert Germaine- Redshirt last season, Got hit by lightning this summer and is now faster .

Aymen Habiballah- straight from Morocco,

Damion Stephenson- From Jamaica, Remember Thelton Detry I think this guy was cloned from Detry's DNA.

Marvin Lopez- From Cuba, He's related to Mijian Lopez of Cuba who stopped 2000 Olympic Champion Rulon Gardner"

Travis Lovett- This guy is a REAL American Indian. He even has feathers! got to be tough!

Shane St. Dennis - This guy has been working as a tatoo artist but decided to wrestle again.

Cornelius Wiggins- I heard he's been training all summer by beating up rednecks in cages.

Jacob Teuschler- Redshirted last season, don't forget this name. although it is hard to spell.

Christopher Sanders- all I can say is this senior wears hulk hogan headbands!

Matthew Reis- He's a Senior, he spent the entire summer training on a island. He's like Tarzan!

Angelo Price- He quit basketball to wrestle, I think he is one of Wilt Chamberlins many sons. He sure acts like it!  looks like it too. Will be a big add to the team. Oh, He was ALOT better than Hernandez.

Arthur Agazarm - His name is Arthur!!!!! hahaha

Joshua Perry - his Girlfriend won the US OPEN. Just to date her he's going to have to step it up.

Wesley Newton- must be 40 years old "Named after Wesley Snipes"

Joshua Combs- Related to Sean P.Diddy Combs

LOL this was too funny. Sounds like the know the team too well. Isn't Center a junior or did he redshirt a year?

Its funny how everyone is already predicting line-ups. Cumberlands is really deep at alot of weights. There are names of really good Cumberland wrestlers that haven'teven been mentioned.

Center was a freshmen last year, I'm sure he will be alot better this year. Ask him?

Robert Germaine- Redshirt last season, Got hit by lightning this summer and is now faster .

Aymen Habiballah- straight from Morocco,

Damion Stephenson- From Jamaica, Remember Thelton Detry I think this guy was cloned from Detry's DNA.

Marvin Lopez- From Cuba, He's related to Mijian Lopez of Cuba who stopped 2000 Olympic Champion Rulon Gardner"

Travis Lovett- This guy is a REAL American Indian. He even has feathers! got to be tough!

Shane St. Dennis - This guy has been working as a tatoo artist but decided to wrestle again.

Cornelius Wiggins- I heard he's been training all summer by beating up rednecks in cages.

Jacob Teuschler- Redshirted last season, don't forget this name. although it is hard to spell.

Christopher Sanders- all I can say is this senior wears hulk hogan headbands!

Matthew Reis- He's a Senior, he spent the entire summer training on a island. He's like Tarzan!

Angelo Price- He quit basketball to wrestle, I think he is one of Wilt Chamberlins many sons. He sure acts like it!  looks like it too. Will be a big add to the team. Oh, He was ALOT better than Hernandez.

Arthur Agazarm - His name is Arthur!!!!! hahaha

Joshua Perry - his Girlfriend won the US OPEN. Just to date her he's going to have to step it up.

Wesley Newton- must be 40 years old "Named after Wesley Snipes"

Joshua Combs- Related to Sean P.Diddy Combs

thats hilarious....you muxt know the team pretty good because this sounds just like every one of them....

bothh teams have some great wrestlers and good recruits