Topic ID: 9319 | 44 Posts
Figure this would be a good place for people to get answers on questions they had. It seems to be a pretty popular thread on Yappi.
This is a Q & A thread, please no bashing of anyone on here.
Just post a question/situation below and hopefully some of the refs around the state can chime in.
Ok say I run a double chicken wing and get my 5 count but then my arms cross instead of staying side by side, do I still get my back points? This happened to one of my youth kids ad he wasn't rewarded his points.
you should still get everything you earned up to the point of the illegal hold.
That's what I thought but as you know most youth tourneys use HS kids for ref's so I didn't argue to hard for cause I know they are doing their best
Ok so 
, a wrestlers takes a shot has the other wrestlers leg they go out of bounds both still on their feet the ref waves them out then the wrestler with the leg gets a takedown , should it be two or out of bounds ??????
I have one more... You start on top bottom guy stands up. You lock your hands around his waist and throw him back to the mat. I know you can't keep your hand locked but just how much time do you give to unlock your hands? 1/2 second 1 second?
Instantly .
This thread kinda seems like a way to "complain" about the refs without saying specifically who or what match it happened in. kinda like the gossip sharing a "prayer request".
but I'll play along for a minute.
Ok so
sounds like out of bounds?!?! Not a lot to go on though.
I'll go with Mpire on the other one. It doesn't always get called that way though...can't really say 1/2 sec or 1 sec. it's not like we have a stop watch on the mat.
This thread kinda seems like a way to "complain" about the refs without saying specifically who or what match it happened in. kinda like the gossip sharing a "prayer request".
but I'll play along for a minute.
No, when used correctly this is a fantastic thread. Thanks ridingtime for getting this started.
I swear I'm not complaining..... I just wasn't for sure on them 2 situations. And for now on I'll wait till I'm calmed down before a put a post up and make an idiot of myself. Lol... But for real I'd like to thank all of you " ref's, coach's, parents" for the work you put in for these kids...
I wrestled for 7 years didn't get started till late cause wrestling wasn't so big back then it was all basketball. But when I realized I was to short to play anymore I moved to wrestling "the most awesome sport". My only regret was not listening to coach Boyle when tried to get me start in 6th grade. I just got back into it few years ago to help get our youth program started. I'll be the first to admit I have a lot to learn. Iv got the basics "enough to teach the young kids" but I want to learn as much as I can.
This thread kinda seems like a way to "complain" about the refs without saying specifically who or what match it happened in. kinda like the gossip sharing a "prayer request".
but I'll play along for a minute.
The "prayer request" comment was priceless! Here is a link to the yappi thread. Very civil discussion, and it goes on that way for pages.
ridingtime, I've got one for you. Well, I haven't seen it yet but thought I'd bring it to your attention as the Mich v OSU dual is televised on B1G Ten Network this Fri. Word is that Mich 165 Massa hits a reverse head and arm. The question raised concerns the legality of the move. My guess is that he will at least attempt it if not hit it against Martin. Hopefully you will have a chance to watch this.
reaction time is judgemental but usually high school is is more qucker than middle high school is almost instantly
If a wrestler A defends a single leg by forcing the opponent B into a cross face cradle and turns that wrestler to his back but the opponent still B has a grip on the leg, should back points be awarded? Wrestler A is clearly in control and B is holding on for dear life.
If a wrestler A defends a single leg by forcing the opponent B into a cross face cradle and turns that wrestler to his back but the opponent still B has a grip on the leg, should back points be awarded? Wrestler A is clearly in control and B is holding on for dear life.
Holding onto a leg does not stop the takedown, when the control is imminent the ref should award the takedown then start counting back points.
There are several situations that the wrestler being taken down has a leg but gives up control. That would be one of them sbfraz
Thanks. That is what I thought. This happened to my son twice in a match recently but the ref (not a real official) argued it wasn't a takedown because the other wrestler held onto the leg the whole time. He missed out on 10 points total because of the same move and lost the match by 2 points. Oh well, it made him mad. He tech pinned the next 3 kids he wrestled:)
How are the officals picked for the State Tournament? Is there any type of criteria or vote?
ridingtime, I've got one for you. Well, I haven't seen it yet but thought I'd bring it to your attention as the Mich v OSU dual is televised on B1G Ten Network this Fri. Word is that Mich 165 Massa hits a reverse head and arm. The question raised concerns the legality of the move. My guess is that he will at least attempt it if not hit it against Martin. Hopefully you will have a chance to watch this.
I've seen him do that very effectively. I actually tried to teach it to my oldest son but immediately noticed that it can easily lead to a situation where you choke the bottom guy out and stopped him. Probably okay at a higher level but not to sure about the younger kids.
I have one. I read this on the khsaa web site (Coaches and officials, please take note that we updated the “Wrestling SKIN CONDITION” form ( WR111) two years ago. We believe it will benefit all parties involved by clearly stipulating weather the condition falls under Rule 4-2-3 (which requires a form to be renewed every Seven days) or Rule 4-2-5 (that allows for valid documentation for the duration of the season). Please take time to make your self familiar with this form. I have included a link to our website where you may download and make copies as needed. Always remember, regardless of documentation, NFHS rule 4-2-4 states: … “If a designated on-site meet PHYSICIAN is present, he/she may overrule the diagnosis of the appropriate health care professional signing the medical release form for a wrestler to participate with a particular skin condition.” I would advise any of you hosting a tournament to make sure you have a medical professional on site for your weigh-ins.) So the way I read this it would have to be a PHYSICIAN to overule another physician who filled out the form. The reason I ask is my son who is a senior was not allowed to wrestle in his region tournament because a ref didn't like the way a scar on his arm looked even though he had form WR 111 filled out and wrestled earlier in the week. He also had a note from the doctor who by the way is a dermatologist not a gynecologist stating that it was not contagious in any way. I went in and talked to the ref myself and asked if they had a doctor onsite to look at it and he said no it was his call and he could overule a doctor if he wanted. This seems ridiculous to me why have a form allowing a doctor to clear a wrestler only to allow a ref with no medical experience to overule the doctor. Makes no sense to me.
Absolutely insane. someone correct me if i am wrong but an official cannot overrule a note correct???
I have one. I read this on the khsaa web site (Coaches and officials, please take note that we updated the “Wrestling SKIN CONDITION” form ( WR111) two years ago. We believe it will benefit all parties involved by clearly stipulating weather the condition falls under Rule 4-2-3 (which requires a form to be renewed every Seven days) or Rule 4-2-5 (that allows for valid documentation for the duration of the season). Please take time to make your self familiar with this form. I have included a link to our website where you may download and make copies as needed. Always remember, regardless of documentation, NFHS rule 4-2-4 states: … “If a designated on-site meet PHYSICIAN is present, he/she may overrule the diagnosis of the appropriate health care professional signing the medical release form for a wrestler to participate with a particular skin condition.” I would advise any of you hosting a tournament to make sure you have a medical professional on site for your weigh-ins.)So the way I read this it would have to be a PHYSICIAN to overule another physician who filled out the form. The reason I ask is my son who is a senior was not allowed to wrestle in his region tournament because a ref didn't like the way a scar on his arm looked even though he had form WR 111 filled out and wrestled earlier in the week. He also had a note from the doctor who by the way is a dermatologist not a gynecologist stating that it was not contagious in any way. I went in and talked to the ref myself and asked if they had a doctor onsite to look at it and he said no it was his call and he could overule a doctor if he wanted. This seems ridiculous to me why have a form allowing a doctor to clear a wrestler only to allow a ref with no medical experience to overule the doctor. Makes no sense to me.
That's what happened. I asked him if he was a doctor and he said no then I asked how he thought he knew more than the dermatologist my son went to three times. He said he didn't but that he wasn't going to let him wrestle. I know my son probably wouldn't have done much at state but I think he would have qualified for it, and either way it would have been nice to have had the opportunity to go out wrestling.
http://bit.ly/12H0ZID Was this really two? When I seen it I really didnt think it was.
takedown without a doubt.... http://bit.ly/XKr0Pt
Why are refs who don't know simple rules allowed to officiate Region and State? For one the difference between just pushing someone backwards and aggressively attempting a takedown. Refs where throwing out stalling calls like crazy for nothing more than pushing. If you don't know that you have to stop a match when the wrestler on top is called for stalling then you should not be an official at the Region or State tournament. This happened multiple times to my wrestlers this weekend.
One ref i think should ref state is Tom.
Definatly not a takedown when it was called. WHen the top wrestler takes it to the mat he then has control.
http://bit.ly/12H0ZID Was this really two? When I seen it I really didnt think it was.
Here no.
takedown without a doubt.... http://bit.ly/XKr0Pt
Here yes. Once the defensive wrestler's hand touches the mat it is a takedown, assuming he is covered, which he was.
Same thing I was thinking Otto
Exactly what I thought when I was sitting there watching the match, and the photo just confirms it, especially since you can see the ref in the background in the picture throwing two up when there hadnt been two scored yet.
on stalling you don't stop the match if its called for not bringing the the wrestler backto the mat. If it's called for staying on the hips it is stopped. It was changed because if you stopped the match while on their feet it was actually punishing the bottom wrestler.
http://bit.ly/12H0ZID Was this really two? When I seen it I really didnt think it was.
are you telling me that you can absolutely tell from a still photo that the wrestlers hand was not down a second before this photo was snapped and he picked his hand up? I can't tell by the photo what happened in the seconds before that.
Exactly what I thought when I was sitting there watching the match, and the photo just confirms it, especially since you can see the ref in the background in the picture throwing two up when there hadnt been two scored yet.
The ref did call it early. Has this guy reffed Stephen's matches before? The few times that I saw Stephen wrestle this year (per video) this seemed to be his go-to move. I am betting the ref had seen it before and was assuming the takedown. In the end, the call was made correctly.
are you telling me that you can absolutely tell from a still photo that the wrestlers hand was not down a second before this photo was snapped and he picked his hand up? I can't tell by the photo what happened in the seconds before that.
No I was there in person, then happened to see the photo, which I believed confirmed that the two was given way early. Were you there? Did you get to see the call? Or are you the one just looking at the photo?
I was on the floor and watched the entire match. granted I wasn't watching as intently as you probably were, but like I said, I can't tell by the photo what happened just before it was taken.
halfhalfhalf A official can overrule a doctors note but majority of the time they don't. Cannot explain on the situation mention was not there. Seems to me there should of been an on-site athletic trainer there if was a regional. My opinion it should be required. By the way that really sucks catfan sounds like you did everything right
I was on the floor and watched the entire match. granted I wasn't watching as intently as you probably were, but like I said, I can't tell by the photo what happened just before it was taken.
Since you probably had a different angle than I, did you feel the call made at that particular time was correct? I was only using the photo for reference, I felt the two was early and realize he eventually obtained the position but had French pulled out and the two had not been obtained it was too late because the points were already awarded. This was a championship match and that couldve been a fatal flaw.
Since you probably had a different angle than I, did you feel the call made at that particular time was correct? I was only using the photo for reference, I felt the two was early and realize he eventually obtained the position but had French pulled out and the two had not been obtained it was too late because the points were already awarded. This was a championship match and that couldve been a fatal flaw.
The ref could easily wave off the two, no problem. Happens often.
The ref could easily wave off the two, no problem. Happens often.
Also seen where they cant suck up their pride and admit to being wrong or they actually believe their wrong call was correct. Its a tough job and none will ever get every call correct, I'm not being critcal, just interested in the opinions of others as to the call.
Also seen where they cant suck up their pride and admit to being wrong or they actually believe their wrong call was correct. Its a tough job and none will ever get every call correct, I'm not being critcal, just interested in the opinions of others as to the call.
Well, you make a good point there! I have seen NCAA refs stick with their original call even after video review shows otherwise.
I thought the call was early during the match too. They were facing away from us so it was hard to tell when French's hands hit the mat.
So what is the official rule regarding when a takedown is scored in this case? My son was in a very similar position at the super 32 a few years back. He lost by 1 and was a match (or maybe 2) away from placing. What I had heard prior to thatbis if wrestler defending the takedown is putting most of his weight on his hands then it is considered a takedown. In otherwards if he is leaning forward as in the second picture its 2 points. Is that correct? If so my son got screwed at super 32. I asked the ref, tournament director and they said the ref should allow for "reaction time".
So what is the official rule regarding when a takedown is scored in this case? My son was in a very similar position at the super 32 a few years back. He lost by 1 and was a match (or maybe 2) away from placing. What I had heard prior to thatbis if wrestler defending the takedown is putting most of his weight on his hands then it is considered a takedown. In otherwards if he is leaning forward as in the second picture its 2 points. Is that correct? If so my son got screwed at super 32. I asked the ref, tournament director and they said the ref should allow for "reaction time".
I believe the rule states that once the defending wrestler touches the mat it is a takedown. I have seen it called this way many times, but I am not a ref. Stephen hit this same move against Marinelli. Same reaction (hand to the mat), same ruling (takedown). As for reaction time, well I don't know. The reaction was touching the mat, and Stephen had control on the way down. NCAA calls this a takedown instant the hand hits the mat. Not sure if high school is different. I like the move when it is "completed". In other words, when the scoring wrestler has his opponent down on the mat. When the defending wrestler is able to keep his feet there is no chance to ride and/or work for a turn. The scoring wrestler is off to the side and there is potential for a reversal.