First, I would like to congratulate all of the teams for a fantastic day of wrestling.  The tournament did not go w/ out flaws, but overall I was pleased with the results.  I hope everyone else feels the same. 

 

One MAJOR issue that needs to be addressed immediately was an error in the team score calculations.  Scott County was a DIII team that was incorrectly placed in the DII team group.  Not sure how the mistake happened, but I wanted to make sure everyone is aware Scott County won the DIII State Championship w/ 21 points!! 

 

I want to apologize to all the coaches, parents, and especially the kids of this club.  We will order your team a trophy tomorrow and personally deliver to your coach as soon as we get it.   

 

When I am fully decompressed, I'll post all the team scores.  Thanks again for everyone's efforts and patience today!

 

Matt Lee

Raider Youth Wrestling

Awesome job Scott Co.!! Congrats to Coach Roberts, his staff, and all of the kids!!

Great job broski.  If there were flaws, you guys hid them well.  I thought the tournament was spectacular.  Big thanks to all the coaches and hundreds of volunteers who give so much to put this tournament on. 

Thanks for all the hard work!  My boys had a blast as always face offs are a huge hit.

I'm a nitpicker. However, this was a great tournament and I can't complain. Congrats and a sincere thanks for a well-run event.

I thought we weren't doing team scores. When did this change?

As one of those involved with organizing this event I have to say it came off better than expected. Huge thanks to a lot of people for their efforts.

My understanding is that gene wolf (president of the youth association) left the team score issue up to the hosting region. I was originally against team scores. The n ky coaches got together and decided to take a new approach to team scores and I believe it was very successful (aside from the Scott co snafu). I'm very confident a better tabulation system will be in place next yr.

As one of those involved with organizing this event I have to say it came off better than expected. Huge thanks to a lot of people for their efforts.

My understanding is that gene wolf (president of the youth association) left the team score issue up to the hosting region. I was originally against team scores. The n ky coaches got together and decided to take a new approach to team scores and I believe it was very successful (aside from the Scott co snafu). I'm very confident a better tabulation system will be in place next yr.

Why have the spring and fall meetings if we are not going to adhere to what was voted on? You n ky coaches can get together all you want and decide it is something to vote on when everyone has a say. This action does nothing to get coaches to attend the spring and fall meetings. Ranger, you once described the youth "elementary" as still the wild west. IMO, you shot the sheriff. Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with team trophies. I have a problem with surprises.

I voted against team scores. Not sure what the big deal is. The host gave trophies. A couple of people sat down and kept team scores and gave an award to 12 teams. Until the youth organization is more organized each host will do things a little different.

I know you said you voted against team scores. That is not the problem. The problem is you voted on something that was decided on a state basis in a regional meeting. Someone should have said this issue was already decided, let's move on to other regional business. Someone put in thought and effort into how to score this. Document it and bring it to a vote in Spring.

Right but even though I am the grand poobah I only represent one team in this region. The n ky region hosted this event.

I don't want to get a huge debate started but as I recall there may be some issue with the way the rules changes were implemented. It is at least an issue that the vast majority of coaches don't have the current bylaws.

Thanks for all the hard work!  My boys had a blast as always face offs are a huge hit.

Your son is a great wrestler he wrestled my sons coaches boy in the finals. How long has he been wrestling he did a great job.

I know you said you voted against team scores. That is not the problem. The problem is you voted on something that was decided on a state basis in a regional meeting. Someone should have said this issue was already decided, let's move on to other regional business. Someone put in thought and effort into how to score this. Document it and bring it to a vote in Spring.

The region coaches had to discuss state issues to organize the event. I know I never received a communication after the fall youth meeting so I have to assume other coaches are in the same boat. So they reached out to gene for clarification. The group moved forward based on his feedback and group consensus.

Again there was a question about the final decision and the bottom line is that trophies were paid for by n ky teams and given out. Who was hurt by this decision?

I know you said you voted against team scores. That is not the problem. The problem is you voted on something that was decided on a state basis in a regional meeting. Someone should have said this issue was already decided, let's move on to other regional business. Someone put in thought and effort into how to score this. Document it and bring it to a vote in Spring.

The original youth bylaws state that any change voted on will be implemented the following season. Hence, any change voted upon this year would not affect the upcoming season. To be honest, I thought some of the decisions made, including eliminating team scores was a mistake, and I used that clause to fight to keep team scores in place. Ranger, aka Poobah, made a nice compromise to make three divisions and give trophies out to the top 4. This put the team race back in play, but also gave every team a chance to take home some hardware.

Your son is a great wrestler he wrestled my sons coaches boy in the finals. How long has he been wrestling he did a great job.

 

This is his second year.  It doesn't hurt that he has great kids around his weight at practice every night and an older brother that likes to throw him around. 

What were the team scores? It would be nice to have them posted.

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There are bylaws????

There are bylaws????

Yes

The original youth bylaws state that any change voted on will be implemented the following season. Hence, any change voted upon this year would not affect the upcoming season. To be honest, I thought some of the decisions made, including eliminating team scores was a mistake, and I used that clause to fight to keep team scores in place. Ranger, aka Poobah, made a nice compromise to make three divisions and give trophies out to the top 4. This put the team race back in play, but also gave every team a chance to take home some hardware.

At the meeting, we kind of made a "big deal" out of having a Tournament of Champions to address the issues of inequities in team scoring as well as the inequity of elementary age kids wrestling on middle school teams. Your use of that clause has under minded the good intentions

of offering wrestlers an opportunity at a TOC for Kentucky Youth Wrestling. Under minding is a bit strong. Diminished would be more appropriate.

At the meeting, we kind of made a "big deal" out of having a Tournament of Champions to address the issues of inequities in team scoring as well as the inequity of elementary age kids wrestling on middle school teams. Your use of that clause has under minded the good intentions

of offering wrestlers an opportunity at a TOC for Kentucky Youth Wrestling. Under minding is a bit strong. Diminished would be more appropriate.

You mean the TOC that no one knows about? If anything, your TOC attempted to diminish the youth state tournament by having a "super" state tournament after the actual state tournament...lol. Furthermore, all I did was point out the actual bylaws to people to prevent them from doing things that they did not have the right to do. You need to get your facts straight.

At the meeting, we kind of made a "big deal" out of having a Tournament of Champions to address the issues of inequities in team scoring as well as the inequity of elementary age kids wrestling on middle school teams. Your use of that clause has under minded the good intentions

of offering wrestlers an opportunity at a TOC for Kentucky Youth Wrestling. Under minding is a bit strong. Diminished would be more appropriate.

Furthermore, to address the "inequities" of the team scoring, they created 3 divisions and gave out 12 team trophies. I had nothing to do with that decision, but that makes more sense than doing away with team scores all together and having an entirely separate tournament after the season to address the so called "inequities".

You mean the TOC that no one knows about? If anything, your TOC attempted to diminish the youth state tournament by having a "super" state tournament after the actual state tournament...lol. Furthermore, all I did was point out the actual bylaws to people to prevent them from doing things that they did not have the right to do. You need to get your facts straight.

The KY TOC has been on the KY USA from the beginning. Promoting the event at Alltech was kicked to the curb when the trophies were spotted. In no way it is the intention of a TOC to diminish a state champion. It, as stated before, was an avenue to address some of the inequities your revisions of team scoring was trying to do. Did this year's revision not violate the same bylaw? It is a good idea. Why was it not brought at the meetings when the opportunity was there? As I understand it now, you will be fine with no TEAM scoring at State next year.

The KY TOC has been on the KY USA from the beginning. Promoting the event at Alltech was kicked to the curb when the trophies were spotted. In no way it is the intention of a TOC to diminish a state champion. It, as stated before, was an avenue to address some of the inequities your revisions of team scoring was trying to do. Did this year's revision not violate the same bylaw? It is a good idea. Why was it not brought at the meetings when the opportunity was there? As I understand it now, you will be fine with no TEAM scoring at State next year.

I have a hard time believing the lack of promoting the TOC at Alltech had anything to do with team scores being held at state. I don't care what you claim is the intention of TOC, but the idea of having a tournament a month after state to address the team scoring "inequities" makes no sense at all. Also, how does having a tournament a month after the season address these inequities? If you want to have a TOC, go for it. We'll be sending some kids for sure. However, that tournament will not address any of the team scoring issues like you are advertising. To answer your question, I will never be fine not having team scores at state.

The KY TOC has been on the KY USA from the beginning. Promoting the event at Alltech was kicked to the curb when the trophies were spotted. In no way it is the intention of a TOC to diminish a state champion. It, as stated before, was an avenue to address some of the inequities your revisions of team scoring was trying to do. Did this year's revision not violate the same bylaw? It is a good idea. Why was it not brought at the meetings when the opportunity was there? As I understand it now, you will be fine with no TEAM scoring at State next year.

tilt, I'm really confused by this statement.  Why would you stop promoting the tournament because you noticed team trophies? 

tilt, I'm really confused by this statement.  Why would you stop promoting the tournament because you noticed team trophies? 

Because I was unclear that it would happen at all if that piece had changed. I'm on record that I personally am fine with anything that promotes our sport and increases the numbers. I am equally on record that we should not vote on things that we are not going to implement. I am guilty of not being aware of said bylaw. When voted on, I don't recall it being close or much discussion afterwards. Could someone have spoken up then?

I should know in a few days if the 3/30 TOC date is on at Fern Creek. Someone else posted earlier the difficulty of holding it at a Catholic school during Holy week.

Because I was unclear that it would happen at all if that piece had changed. I'm on record that I personally am fine with anything that promotes our sport and increases the numbers. I am equally on record that we should not vote on things that we are not going to implement. I am guilty of not being aware of said bylaw. When voted on, I don't recall it being close or much discussion afterwards. Could someone have spoken up then?

I should know in a few days if the 3/30 TOC date is on at Fern Creek. Someone else posted earlier the difficulty of holding it at a Catholic school during Holy week.

OK, I guess what I'm getting at is, why can't you promote the TOC because of team scores at the Youth State Tournament?  There is no link between the two.  One is our annual state tournament, the other is a post-season tournament.  Are they even keeping team scores at the TOC?  I admit, I know very little about this event.

 

We agreed to preserve the tradition of team scores for many reasons, which we'll discuss at the next meeting. I'm confident the vote will go much differently next time and hopefully we can move forward to bigger issues.   

The TOC remedied the idea of not keeping team scores as was voted on. So, according to this bylaw is the 2014 state meet not keeping scores and if voted on again this year back with team scores in 2015? Whatever, it's all good.

The TOC remedied the idea of not keeping team scores as was voted on. So, according to this bylaw is the 2014 state meet not keeping scores and if voted on again this year back with team scores in 2015? Whatever, it's all good.

Are you suggesting that the TOC was attempting to determine a KY youth team title? I don't know how a tournament after the season could accurately determine a team title. Many kids stop wrestling after state and most teams stop practicing after state as well. I'm not criticizing the tournament or the fine people putting it together, I just don't understand why you would stop promoting it because teams scores were kept at state.

"A quorum at the annual meetings will be composed of 20% of the governing body of the KSYWA. All action items that involve rule changes, bylaw changes, or expenditures of money must pass a vote of 50% plus 1 member of all present voting members at a statewide meeting. Action items that pass a vote at the statewide meeting will then be voted on by member teams through regional representatives. There will be no voting by proxy at the statewide meetings. Regional representatives will make a reasonable effort to contact member teams within their region to record their votes on voting issues. Member teams are responsible to keep contact information for their designated team representative up to date on the KSYWA website(http://www.kyswa.org)."

This is the voting process as written in the by-laws. Now ask yourself, did this occur? I can assure you it didn't; therefore, the vote was void. In addition, when our region got together, we agreed (unanimously) on keeping the team scores, but w/ levels to appease those who voted. Also, we ran the idea past the youth President and he signed off on the idea.

Personally, I thought the results were great and have heard nothing but positive feedback regarding how it was done. No scoring system is perfect. Look no further than our HS tournament. There are many who feel they should seed the tournament and how it would have drastically impacted this year's results. I'd argue duals are a better way to evaluate team strength.

At the end of the day, I'm in favor of all formats, but would like to preserve what the past leaders of our state created at our youth level.

Hey Matt, thanks for sharing. I cannot find these bylaws from the middle school website link. Is there a better place to look?

"A quorum at the annual meetings will be composed of 20% of the governing body of the KSYWA. All action items that involve rule changes, bylaw changes, or expenditures of money must pass a vote of 50% plus 1 member of all present voting members at a statewide meeting. Action items that pass a vote at the statewide meeting will then be voted on by member teams through regional representatives. There will be no voting by proxy at the statewide meetings. Regional representatives will make a reasonable effort to contact member teams within their region to record their votes on voting issues. Member teams are responsible to keep contact information for their designated team representative up to date on the KSYWA website(http://www.kyswa.org)."This is the voting process as written in the by-laws. Now ask yourself, did this occur? I can assure you it didn't; therefore, the vote was void. In addition, when our region got together, we agreed (unanimously) on keeping the team scores, but w/ levels to appease those who voted. Also, we ran the idea past the youth President and he signed off on the idea.Personally, I thought the results were great and have heard nothing but positive feedback regarding how it was done. No scoring system is perfect. Look no further than our HS tournament. There are many who feel they should seed the tournament and how it would have drastically impacted this year's results. I'd argue duals are a better way to evaluate team strength.At the end of the day, I'm in favor of all formats, but would like to preserve what the past leaders of our state created at our youth level.

Still curious of the final youth team scores. As your schedule permits, please post the scores.

At the meeting, we kind of made a "big deal" out of having a Tournament of Champions to address the issues of inequities in team scoring as well as the inequity of elementary age kids wrestling on middle school teams. Your use of that clause has under minded the good intentions

of offering wrestlers an opportunity at a TOC for Kentucky Youth Wrestling. Under minding is a bit strong. Diminished would be more appropriate.

I'm just curious myself because if there was such a "BIG DEAL" about having a TOC for KY youth then why is it that no one has known anything until this past weekend?   Because I've been looking for info since December and NOTHING was posted with any details.

 

Then I wonder, if it was a "BIG DEAL" is 3 weeks before the (scheduled...?) event a proper time to figure out where it is to be held due to a conflict of where it was supposed to be held? 

 

Also I'm just curious but a TOC  would stand for a Tournament Of Champions, meaning individual not team so how did team trophies at KY youth state effect.... I'm sorry, diminish the opportunity for individual kids competing?

 

And lastly, because you know I'm just a female and I must not know much about these things, but if we are going to have a KY TOC I would think that if you are going to state that it will be for only the top 4 placers at youth state along with other invitees you would probably want those top 4 placers to know they are invited.  Well, I can tell you right now I know of at least 40 top 4 placers at KY youth state that have no clue as to this "BIG DEAL" KY TOC and I know this for fact because my child is one of those kids along with about 39 other kids off hand on our team along with other teams who have not heard a word about this "BIG DEAL".   So, it seems as if in the above mentioned meeting you must have focused more on not having the team trophies at KY state youth tourney instead of getting together the details for this KY TOC (A.K.A "BIG DEAL").  Am I missing something because if I am please feel free to let me know I do wear my big girl pants and can handle if I'm incorrect about something.

Because I was unclear that it would happen at all if that piece had changed. I'm on record that I personally am fine with anything that promotes our sport and increases the numbers. I am equally on record that we should not vote on things that we are not going to implement. I am guilty of not being aware of said bylaw. When voted on, I don't recall it being close or much discussion afterwards. Could someone have spoken up then?

I should know in a few days if the 3/30 TOC date is on at Fern Creek. Someone else posted earlier the difficulty of holding it at a Catholic school during Holy week.

This is the most I've seen any info about the KY TOC and I believe it was just posted the other day.  There has been a date on USA Wrestling but no details or information for any questions.  Again if I'm incorrect please let me know where I should have been looking.  I know if I type in TOC on any search engine it pulls up lots of details and even a website for Ohio TOC which has all of its details and I believe they even opened up their site a few months back.  That would be the tourney where if you child places in the top 3 at qualifiying events they are given a slip of paper with the information sometimes months in advance I do believe.

"A quorum at the annual meetings will be composed of 20% of the governing body of the KSYWA. All action items that involve rule changes, bylaw changes, or expenditures of money must pass a vote of 50% plus 1 member of all present voting members at a statewide meeting. Action items that pass a vote at the statewide meeting will then be voted on by member teams through regional representatives. There will be no voting by proxy at the statewide meetings. Regional representatives will make a reasonable effort to contact member teams within their region to record their votes on voting issues. Member teams are responsible to keep contact information for their designated team representative up to date on the KSYWA website(http://www.kyswa.org)."

This is the voting process as written in the by-laws. Now ask yourself, did this occur? I can assure you it didn't; therefore, the vote was void. In addition, when our region got together, we agreed (unanimously) on keeping the team scores, but w/ levels to appease those who voted. Also, we ran the idea past the youth President and he signed off on the idea.

Personally, I thought the results were great and have heard nothing but positive feedback regarding how it was done. No scoring system is perfect. Look no further than our HS tournament. There are many who feel they should seed the tournament and how it would have drastically impacted this year's results. I'd argue duals are a better way to evaluate team strength.

At the end of the day, I'm in favor of all formats, but would like to preserve what the past leaders of our state created at our youth level.

I personally think there is always room for improvement but I can say after this being my 5th year involved at the youth level, 4 of those being on the floor things are running smoother and you all did a great job.  And I agree keeping some of the past preserved is important along with growth to the sport!  I think the levels/divisions for team trophies were the best decision and an extremely fair compromise.  I'm glad to see that a region was able to get together and make a decison that would benifit all teams in the state not just the big teams. 

If you look two topics below this one in the youth forum, you will see one that says First Annual Kentucky State Tournament of Champions. All the info is there.

If you look two topics below this one in the youth forum, you will see one that says First Annual Kentucky State Tournament of Champions. All the info is there.

Yes, I was able to see that when it was posted on March 9th (2 days ago)  as I was asking before where it seemed that if this KY TOC was going to be such a big deal I would have thought it would have been posted sooner than 3 weeks before having it with all the details so that wrestlers could prepare for it.  I was looking forward to such an event when I heard there was going to be one but only believed it to be a myth since there was no info on it.  I hope it turns out to be a great event but again I'm still wondering how they will be notifiying the participants about this event?  Do you have any ideas on how they will be doing this?

My understanding is that the youth coaches are supposed to be passing the info to qualifying kids. Obviously, most teams are no longer practicing, so this could be difficult. We are going and hoping it will have a nice turnout.

Please register on trackwrestling.<br /><br />PM me if you can hold a remote weigh-in.

Please register on trackwrestling.<br /><br />PM me if you can hold a remote weigh-in.

http://www.trackwrestling.com/tw/registration/BasicPreReg1.jsp?tournamentGroupId=84971009