Topic ID: 9510 | 116 Posts
As we get ready for the off season meetings, the many discussions that take place theoughout the year between coaches (without the history lessons and emotions)......
How many coaches, teams would like to see kentucky wrestling begin transitioning to standardized weight classes, weigh ins?
Just a poll, no persuasion, emotion or animosity needed or intended!
"My question is why would you not support, weigh-ins before an event?
Every coaches submits the roster with names and weight class prior to the events to build brackets or then you can match up the kids accordingly, 10% rule or whatever other means.....
Keep everyone honest and safety for all....Confused why anyone would object..."
Let me be clear. I'm ALL for weigh ins, but I don't mind the way we do them now. The problem is...not everyone is doing them!
I would be in favor of set weight classes if we could prohibit weight cutting (never going to happen) and have manageable bracket sizes (I haven't seen a format that looks good yet).
If someone has a set weight class format you like, please let me know. I'll gladly run the #'s and post the results.
What were the results of the weight checks at state? We're there many discrepancies? Those results would give a good idea if the current system of club weigh ins is legit.
Cmon, i wanted a poll without influence and you have to try to argue your point. It is as bad as having a president that does not care what the people think. Let your thoughts go and let people have a say.
JW, I had someone PM me a message (in quotes) about weigh ins; therefore, I felt the need to respond. I highly doubt my comments will influence the 6 people that read and care about this issue. If you haven't noticed, it seems to be the same 5-10 people voicing the same opinions.
And by the way, if I recall, I forwarded you the master spreadsheet last year. You said you'd like to look at the kids weights to see if you could create a format that would be better. It's been a year..come up with anything?
I came up with you watched an 8 to 1 vote going on and couldnt control yourself from the mlee history lesson. 8 to your one on weigh ins. I think it migh be 7 to 2 on weight classes.
But what do others opinions really matter, when you put so much stock into yours.
JW, you are far off w/ your analysis. I respect everyone's opinion. Not sure where that came from. I loved your idea on stalling. I think it should get implemented.
But as a reminder, we had this debate a year ago. Versus picking apart the current system, come up w/ a better format, that is all I ask. I'm not sure what good it does to get a few people all fired up about it. It doesn't help...it only continues to drive a wedge between various parts of the state. You seem to be very passionate about changing it. Once again, I'll send you THIS year's master spreadsheet..give it another try and propose your new format at the spring meeting. I look forward to hearing it.
Lets call a spade a spade. Many of the people on here aren't coaches and have very little experience with the sport as a coach or a participant. Does a vote on a message board from a parent who doesn't coach and never wrestled mean as much as someone's vote who actually coaches and has been in this sport for over 25 years....I say absolutely not. You can put all the stock you want in these random votes while deciding to "ignore the history lesson", but its hardly accurate nor is it any indication of what is actually good for the sport.I came up with you watched an 8 to 1 vote going on and couldnt control yourself from the mlee history lesson. 8 to your one on weigh ins. I think it migh be 7 to 2 on weight classes.
But what do others opinions really matter, when you put so much stock into yours.
I came up with you watched an 8 to 1 vote going on and couldnt control yourself from the mlee history lesson. 8 to your one on weigh ins. I think it migh be 7 to 2 on weight classes.
But what do others opinions really matter, when you put so much stock into yours.
Furthermore, you are one to criticize someone for "not controlling yourself". I personally witnessed you getting thrown out of a youth tournament for not "controlling yourself". You don't have the experience, knowledge, respect of the state, nor temperament to lead the youth association in any way. All you attempt to do is divide the state with your broken record debates.
I have never been thrown out of a youth, hmiddle school or high school event, and yes i have coached at each level in this state and others. Wrong guy on that false accusation. But good try.
As far as splitting the state isnt it coaches from your program that always threaten to .head to the cywl.
I want change for the better and alot of others want the same thing. If you choose not to liaten because of selfish pride, you will find a split. Not what i want but also not afraid of it if it is good for the sport to allow a league that grows not only in quantity but also in quality and performance.
Again, this was to give people an honest chance to express their vote and you find a way to make it a personal issue. Read the original post and it specifically said take emotion out of it, again you could not do it.
I have never been thrown out of a youth, hmiddle school or high school event, and yes i have coached at each level in this state and others. Wrong guy on that false accusation. But good try.
As far as splitting the state isnt it coaches from your program that always threaten to .head to the cywl.
I want change for the better and alot of others want the same thing. If you choose not to liaten because of selfish pride, you will find a split. Not what i want but also not afraid of it if it is good for the sport to allow a league that grows not only in quantity but also in quality and performance.
Again, this was to give people an honest chance to express their vote and you find a way to make it a personal issue. Read the original post and it specifically said take emotion out of it, again you could not do it.
There were many people there who witnessed you getting escorted out of the state tournament two years ago after blowing up after a loss. You can deny it if you want, but many people know the truth.
You must be pretty arrogant to think your proposed changes could improve the tremendous success our youth has had under the current system. What evidence do you have to support that your changes are going to "improve things"? What exactly are you going to improve? Are you suggesting that our youth wrestlers have only improved in quantity and not quality? If so, you are way off base. The quality of wrestling in this state at every level has never been better and this is the direct result of youth wrestling. How are you so sure that your changes are going to improve our PROVEN success?
You claim our coaches "always threaten to head to the CYWL". We have never threatened anyone..who would we be threatening? CYWL have an awesome tournament that happens to be scheduled the same time as our regional tournament and we considered attending it instead of our regional tournament. I don't know why that would bother you or anyone outside of our region considering most regions don't have a regional tournament. The fact is our program has done nothing but support our entire state which has been proven with our involvement with hosting or helping host the state tournament since I can remember and letting kids from neighboring programs attend our practices. What have you done?...other than try to tinker with a proven system while offering no solutions (we're all still waiting with bated breath on your response to Coach Lee about the weight classes.....from last year).
I respect everyone's opinion, but sometimes we have too many chiefs and not enough indians. Most of the people who are on here and are supporting weight classes weren't around when we tried that. They didn't see that we had to have 4 70 lb brackets, while having many brackets with only 2 or 3 kids. The people who are demanding weigh ins, probably haven't helped run a youth tournament with 300 kids, much less 1000 kids. Most of which won't be around when their kid moves up to middle school. They aren't thinking long term because they won't be around long term. You don't want a history lesson, but how can you be educated on this when you didn't experience these issues? You are making assumptions that you can improve things while ignoring the history that got us here while not presenting one shred of evidence that it will improve anything.
I honestly don't care about weight classes nearly as much as I do weigh ins. Lets find a way to make weigh ins work. I agree that weighing the morning of the tournament is not feasible. Maybe we can have 4 tournaments the weekend before state that anyone can attend and do weigh ins at these tourneys. That way we could have some legitimate competition instead of the current regional system that we have in place. It just seems that we have too many regions, some very large and others extremely small.
Our region only had about 50 wrestlers. Each school is over an hour from the other. It's just not ideal. If there were 4 options around the state that teams could choose from, it would make for decent tourneys. Then we do official weigh ins that morning and use those weights for state. If we do if all in track, we can spit the brackets out pretty quickly.
My comment was about the quality of the state tournament, I mean state gathering. All of your facts always relate to growing and numbers.
I understand you had problems with brackets when you only had 400 kids state wide wrestling, and no I was not here then. But you have grown to over 900 kids last year. over 900 kids this year. I think the growing part is fine, it is now time to have a regional qualifier, and have weight classes that determine state champions.
Again, for you another time - I was not escorted out, thrown out, or even asked to leave the tournament. It was the last match of the day that you are referring to, a NH boy wrestling a Raider kid. The referee made about 10 horrible calls, both ways. 2 more referees came down to the mat and made it even more of a debaucle. I walked away from the mat when the match was over and made a comment to the one of the officials that they should be ashamed to wear stripes. And I think they should be. If we were as bad at coaching as some of the officials are at officiating, I would quit coaching and I think you would to. No reason the guys in the corner should know the rulebook better than the official calling the match - it is their profession.
Furthermore - send me the list, with the kids actual weights (you can't do that because nobody knows the actual weights), region they are assigned, and I will look at it based off of weight classes.
I also have another proposal that would meet the intent of all that we can discuss or you can just shoot them down, make false claims on peoples character, and defend your point to the bitter end like it is the only one that matters. Your choice, let me know.
You asked Coach Lee to send you the brackets so you could work your magic LAST year...he did, and you did NOTHING. What makes you think anyone is interested in YOU fixing problems that don't exist.My comment was about the quality of the state
tournament,I mean state gathering. All of your facts always relate to growing and numbers.I understand you had problems with brackets when you only had 400 kids state wide wrestling, and no I was not here then. But you have grown to over 900 kids last year. over 900 kids this year. I think the growing part is fine, it is now time to have a regional qualifier, and have weight classes that determine state champions.
Again, for you another time - I was not escorted out, thrown out, or even asked to leave the tournament. It was the last match of the day that you are referring to, a NH boy wrestling a Raider kid. The referee made about 10 horrible calls, both ways. 2 more referees came down to the mat and made it even more of a debaucle. I walked away from the mat when the match was over and made a comment to the one of the officials that they should be ashamed to wear stripes. And I think they should be. If we were as bad at coaching as some of the officials are at officiating, I would quit coaching and I think you would to. No reason the guys in the corner should know the rulebook better than the official calling the match - it is their profession.
Furthermore - send me the list, with the kids actual weights (you can't do that because nobody knows the actual weights), region they are assigned, and I will look at it based off of weight classes.
I also have another proposal that would meet the intent of all that we can discuss or you can just shoot them down, make false claims on peoples character, and defend your point to the bitter end like it is the only one that matters. Your choice, let me know.
For the record, our state tournament does have weigh ins. Every team is supposed to weigh in. I agree that we need to formalize how it is done to prevent any cheating or concerns of cheating. Our region weighs everyone in as a region, so I am confident we do it right. I can't speak for other teams and regions, but all of us should be doing it the same way.
Regional qualifiers and weight classes present consequences that I believe outweigh the benefits. First, it would be next to impossible to have the tournament at Alltech if we have half the participants. We'd end up having it at a high school or middle school gym. That would be a HUGE deterrent in my opinion. Having it there the day after high school makes that tournament special. Having it at a high school or middle school gym would make it just any other tournament. Having regions as a qualifier would never work because of the distribution of participants significantly favor a few areas over others. We'd have to set it up like other states with select tournaments as "qualifiers" which would be easy to do, if we wanted to have state in a high school gym. You act as 900 kids is significant. In my opinion we shouldn't think about qualifiers until we double that.
Your mockery of our "state gathering" shows your intent. You believe it should be more competitive, intense, and more prestigious, like our middle and high school tournaments. This is where I think you lose sight of what should be the goals of youth wrestling, particularly in our state. We are introducing this sport to kids, some as young as 5 years old, and families and are still very much in the EARLY growth stages. When parents see people like you act the way you did after that loss, they get turned off. Winning a youth state tournament in any state is not prestigious. There is never a reason to act that way in front of young kids. Someone who acts the way you did in front of a couple of 7 year olds shouldn't be lecturing to people like Coach Lee about your vision of what we should be doing better.
Its not about working magic, as you say, and I understand supporting something you believe in, but it it is not what everybody wants statewide, why is it so hard to allow others to voice an opinion, discuss things. You always want facts, I was trying to get a poll of the facts. Numbers of people who want change and numbers who don't. The only thing know right now is there were a number of people starting to voice their opinion and it was overtaken by you trying to call me out on somehting totally outside the subject.
I did run the numbers and ran them again this year - but the only thing that will show is some brackets are huge and others are small, but that would not be the case if you ran a regional or a points system throughout the year which limited each weight class to no more than 16 qualifiers. Some work would have to be done to figure out the right way, but that is what committees do, its not impossible.
With the current number of kids with the turned-in weights, utilizing USA Weight Classes and age groups, if you limited each bracket to 16 person brackets - you would have had 653 kids wrestling that day.with forty of those brackets having between 10 and 16 wrestlers, four having 7-8 wrestlers, and six brackets having 5 or less kids. That would be a total of 60 brackets.
I agree, that if your intent is to allow every single kid who buys wrestling shoes to come, than it is crazy on the size of some brackets. Largest ones being: 46, 45 and 40. Two of them would be at 34, one at 31 and twenty of them in the 20's. The 20's would be doable, but over 30 would be ridiculous to keep at double elimination.
Yes I understand that there were 300 more kids involved in the tournament, but we could probably have a "Rookie" State tournament every year that would allow wrestlers with 2 years and less experience to wrestle and become a Rookie State Champion, provide another club or team an opportunity to host a pretty big event. This would also allow those 1st and 2nd Year wrestlers that are 10 and 11 to wrestle in a tournament where they aren't 3 and 4 years behind in experience. Still meeting the introduction stage.
I don't have the region breakdown or the team list to start trying to figure out regions, I would like to look at it. Not saying I am right and you are wrong, just saying that there are others that would like to see some change and anytime people talk about it, you turn it into a childish argument instead of the topics.
I will ask again that you grow up, act like a professional, and quit trying to paint a bad picture of me. You are overexageratting an issue to try to steer the conversation away.
Its not about working magic, as you say, and I understand supporting something you believe in, but it it is not what everybody wants statewide, why is it so hard to allow others to voice an opinion, discuss things. You always want facts, I was trying to get a poll of the facts. Numbers of people who want change and numbers who don't. The only thing know right now is there were a number of people starting to voice their opinion and it was overtaken by you trying to call me out on somehting totally outside the subject.
I did run the numbers and ran them again this year - but the only thing that will show is some brackets are huge and others are small, but that would not be the case if you ran a regional or a points system throughout the year which limited each weight class to no more than 16 qualifiers. Some work would have to be done to figure out the right way, but that is what committees do, its not impossible.
With the current number of kids with the turned-in weights, utilizing USA Weight Classes and age groups, if you limited each bracket to 16 person brackets - you would have had 653 kids wrestling that day.with forty of those brackets having between 10 and 16 wrestlers, four having 7-8 wrestlers, and six brackets having 5 or less kids. That would be a total of 60 brackets.
I agree, that if your intent is to allow every single kid who buys wrestling shoes to come, than it is crazy on the size of some brackets. Largest ones being: 46, 45 and 40. Two of them would be at 34, one at 31 and twenty of them in the 20's. The 20's would be doable, but over 30 would be ridiculous to keep at double elimination.
Yes I understand that there were 300 more kids involved in the tournament, but we could probably have a "Rookie" State tournament every year that would allow wrestlers with 2 years and less experience to wrestle and become a Rookie State Champion, provide another club or team an opportunity to host a pretty big event. This would also allow those 1st and 2nd Year wrestlers that are 10 and 11 to wrestle in a tournament where they aren't 3 and 4 years behind in experience. Still meeting the introduction stage.
I don't have the region breakdown or the team list to start trying to figure out regions, I would like to look at it. Not saying I am right and you are wrong, just saying that there are others that would like to see some change and anytime people talk about it, you turn it into a childish argument instead of the topics.
I will ask again that you grow up, act like a professional, and quit trying to paint a bad picture of me. You are overexageratting an issue to try to steer the conversation away.
All you have ever done on these boards is criticize the state tournament and offend the hard working people who put the association together and help run the tournament. I'm meerly defending those people because I personally know them, their good intentions, and how hard they work. You clearly like stirring the pot, which is demonstrated by your broken record debates about the same topics every year. Bring your ideas to the Spring meeting and we'll see how they are received. I'll attempt to refrain from going back and forth with you until then.
My solution to everything is move to 16 man brackets using 10%, place the top 6, and demand every region weigh in with a certified official.
My solution to everything is move to 16 man brackets using 10%, place the top 6, and demand every region weigh in with a verified official.
I talked to your brother today about what I think would make a our tournament great for everyone. It has a 16 man bracket for kids that qualify and 8 man novice brackets for kids that do not qualify. It still gives all the kids a chance to enjoy our tournament. With any luck he will be able to add to this. The kids that qualify will be in a set weight class and have to make weight. We will be able to run 10% in all the 8 man brackets.
We have 4 qualifiers in different regions on different weekends. If you do not qualify in one area this will give you three other chances to qualify. This will not only make our state tournament tougher it will also make these 4 tournaments tougher. The only kicker is that these 4 tournaments will have to set weight classes and be closed to out of state kids.
I talked to your brother today about what I think would make a our tournament great for everyone. It has a 16 man bracket for kids that qualify and 8 man novice brackets for kids that do not qualify. It still gives all the kids a chance to enjoy our tournament. With any luck he will be able to add to this. The kids that qualify will be in a set weight class and have to make weight. We will be able to run 10% in all the 8 man brackets.
We have 4 qualifiers in different regions on different weekends. If you do not qualify in one area this will give you three other chances to qualify. This will not only make our state tournament tougher it will also make these 4 tournaments tougher. The only kicker is that these 4 tournaments will have to set weight classes and be closed to out of state kids.
I like the idea of creating a novice and elite division. The idea around the 4 tournaments as a qualifier is about the only way you could do it....no way using the current regional tournaments would work. Preventing out of state competition would eliminate the Rumble as a qualifier, since over half the kids there are out of state. Many of the Louisville tournaments have kids from Indiana also.
I like the idea, but dont necessarily think you would have to close the out of state or not use the rumble.
Out of state cant qualify, but no qualification points earned for out of atate spot.
Run the 4 or 6 or 8 tournaments and utilize a points system that creates a top 16 ranking for each designated classes.
Seems like something worth trying.
I am sorry. I don't want to sound like a butthole here. I am a rookie on these forums. But what exactly is wrong with the way it is done now? Are we just trying to make the state tournament tougher? Do we have a huge problem with kids wrestling out of weight classes? Not sure what problem we are trying to address by running 16 man brackets. I don't think any of these kids care if they won state by winning a 8 man bracket, a 16 man bracket, or a 64 man bracket. I think it is pretty cool to have so many state champs and so many state place winners. I think it really encourages the kids to continue wrestling if the go to state and place. Then coaches and parents can really make big deal about a kid doing so good at the state tournament. Again, the kids don't care they were in a 8 man bracket. Anyway, would like to get a clearer idea of what EXACTLY is the problem we are trying to solve by moving away from the way it is done now. The way we are doing it now, at least in my mind, really promotes youth wrestling in this state.
JD IMO the problem is we don't have true state champions for the youth like other states and the weight is being over blown in some cases. Some of the kids in Kentucky that win youth state couldn't go to open youth tourneys in OH or WV and even place in them. Are youth tournament needs to be addressed so our youth kids will get to be better wrestlers.
JD IMO the problem is we don't have true state champions for the youth like other states and the weight is being over blown in some cases. Some of the kids in Kentucky that win youth state couldn't go to open youth tourneys in OH or WV and even place in them. Are youth tournament needs to be addressed so our youth kids will get to be better wrestlers.
I've watched some of our MS placers get handled in open youth tourneys in OH..a 4th placer this year go 0-2 in an above average class, a runner-up get beat regularly. How would making bigger brackets and/or set weight classes change that? Our kids get beat by OH or WV for many reasons: more experienced coaches, more established programs, more participants, etc. Changing the format will not make our kids (as a whole) any better.
I am sorry. I don't want to sound like a butthole here. I am a rookie on these forums. But what exactly is wrong with the way it is done now? Are we just trying to make the state tournament tougher? Do we have a huge problem with kids wrestling out of weight classes? Not sure what problem we are trying to address by running 16 man brackets. I don't think any of these kids care if they won state by winning a 8 man bracket, a 16 man bracket, or a 64 man bracket. I think it is pretty cool to have so many state champs and so many state place winners. I think it really encourages the kids to continue wrestling if the go to state and place. Then coaches and parents can really make big deal about a kid doing so good at the state tournament. Again, the kids don't care they were in a 8 man bracket. Anyway, would like to get a clearer idea of what EXACTLY is the problem we are trying to solve by moving away from the way it is done now. The way we are doing it now, at least in my mind, really promotes youth wrestling in this state.
I am with you. I have no issues w/ handing out more medals to our youth kids. If fierce competition is what you want, you'll have to go outside our state regardless of bracket size. I don't care if you make 100 man brackets...we just don't have that many in-state elite kids.
Also, after speaking to an OH youth coach yesterday at a tournament, I was reminded of what I hate about set weight classes at youth....weight cutting. This coach told me how terrible it has gotten in OH. No regulation, kids dropping 10 lbs., blah blah blah. He was envious of our situation. His exact words, "I wish we could press the reset button and start things over...but that will never happen in OH."
I am sorry. I don't want to sound like a butthole here. I am a rookie on these forums. But what exactly is wrong with the way it is done now? Are we just trying to make the state tournament tougher? Do we have a huge problem with kids wrestling out of weight classes? Not sure what problem we are trying to address by running 16 man brackets. I don't think any of these kids care if they won state by winning a 8 man bracket, a 16 man bracket, or a 64 man bracket. I think it is pretty cool to have so many state champs and so many state place winners. I think it really encourages the kids to continue wrestling if the go to state and place. Then coaches and parents can really make big deal about a kid doing so good at the state tournament. Again, the kids don't care they were in a 8 man bracket. Anyway, would like to get a clearer idea of what EXACTLY is the problem we are trying to solve by moving away from the way it is done now. The way we are doing it now, at least in my mind, really promotes youth wrestling in this state.
You bring up a great point...all of the "proposed changes" are changes wanted by a select few adults, mostly parents of above average wrestlers who want stiffer competition and/or to be able to call their little Johnny a "true" state champion. They are suggesting these changes for what they think is best for their kids who are probably fully committed to the sport by now. It doesn't appear they are considering the kids and families who are just trying the sport out and debating whether or not to send their little Johnny into basketball next year. I have NEVER heard a youth kid complain about the youth state tournament since we moved it to Frankfort. In fact it has been quite the opposite, most kids and families love our state tournament the way it is now. Yet, when you come on these boards, you would think it is the worst tournament in the country if you listen to a select few.
JD IMO the problem is we don't have true state champions for the youth like other states and the weight is being over blown in some cases. Some of the kids in Kentucky that win youth state couldn't go to open youth tourneys in OH or WV and even place in them. Are youth tournament needs to be addressed so our youth kids will get to be better wrestlers.
If kids from our state want better competition, they are going to have to travel out-of-state to get it....just like our middle school and high school teams also have to to do. Having state champions go to out-of-state tournaments and not place happens at our high school level as well. I watched a 2X Kentucky high school state champion get beat by a one time Ohio state placer years ago. This past year we had a 3X Kentucky high school state champion get TF'd by a kid that placed 5th in Ohio. We've had high school wrestling in this state since the 1960's and we have only had youth wrestling for a little over 10 years! It is going to take time until our elite can handle the elite from some of the more powerful wrestling states, if it ever happens. Yet, it can be argued that wrestling in this state has never been better from the number of high school kids we have ranked nationally, the number of kids we have wrestling in college, to how our teams are competing against out-of-state competition. Most of the kids we have wrestling in college right now started in our youth programs. What we are doing is working to make our kids better wrestlers.
You bring up a great point...all of the "proposed changes" are changes wanted by a select few adults, mostly parents of above average wrestlers who want stiffer competition and/or to be able to call their little Johnny a "true" state champion. They are suggesting these changes for what they think is best for their kids who are probably fully committed to the sport by now. It doesn't appear they are considering the kids and families who are just trying the sport out and debating whether or not to send their little Johnny into basketball next year. I have NEVER heard a youth kid complain about the youth state tournament since we moved it to Frankfort. In fact it has been quite the opposite, most kids and families love our state tournament the way it is now. Yet, when you come on these boards, you would think it is the worst tournament in the country if you listen to a select few.
Are we talking growth? If you change a little at our state tournament we can encourage more kids to stick with it. If we separate the novice and advanced kids we maybe able to retain more kids in our youth programs. What does little Johnny kid learn from going to a state tournament and going 0-2 getting pinned twice in the first period?
IMO we have a nice tournament. I'm just looking at ways to make it better. The face offs are a must kids love it, The Arena is great. It looks like the biggest complaint is weight classes and cutting weight.
Are we talking growth? If you change a little at our state tournament we can encourage more kids to stick with it. If we separate the novice and advanced kids we maybe able to retain more kids in our youth programs. What does little Johnny kid learn from going to a state tournament and going 0-2 getting pinned twice in the first period?
IMO we have a nice tournament. I'm just looking at ways to make it better. The face offs are a must kids love it, The Arena is great. It looks like the biggest complaint is weight classes and cutting weight.
I don't think there is whole lot as an association we can do to make our kids "better" other than promote growth. How does changing the format of our tournaments make an individual better? Kids get better in the practice room and in the offseason. The tournaments are just an event to let them display that improvement. However, the more growth we have, the more competition kids will face which will drive our kids to get better. The elite kids will always rise to the top and the more kids we have, the more elite kids we will have and the better they will be.
Our goals as the youth assoication should be to drive growth through kid and family focused marketing, ensure the safety of the kids, and improve organization across the state. When you claim you want to "make it better", who are you making it better for? I don't think increasing the pressure on the kids with quailifying tournaments, weight classes, larger brackets, is better for youth kids...especially the really young ones. The kids who have been around a few years that want more competition can wrestle up at middle school when they feel they are ready. What we have now in this state is a really nice progression of competition. At youth, it is still fun and competitive, but not too intense. At middle, the competition and intensity increases significantly and likewise with high school.
I understand the line gets blurry with some of our elite youth kids. They show up at our youth tournament and smash 3 kids in no time and walk away without breaking a sweat. They are probably too good to be competing at our youth tournaments and should spend more time wrestling up, if they choose. The same could be said with our elite middle school kids and probably some of our high school kids. I was talking with a friend of mine who coaches at Brecksville High School near Cleveland. They have become a public school powerhouse and I was picking his brain about their youth program. He said they have a large team, but they pick around 30 elite kids and they pretty much have nothing to do with Ohio youth events around that area. They travel the country wrestling middle school tournaments when permitted or ultra competitive youth events. We are far from having the level of wrestling they have in that area of the country, but the point is the same: if you want more competition you need to step up and go get it. Blaming the format of our tournament for our kids not getting "better" is both inaccurate and misguided.
I am going backoff a little on this specifically a i believe there is alot of truths to what raidercoach and mlee have said and no point have i ever said the tournament did not run smoothly and do believe that there is alot of lnog thankless hours put into the tournament.
My new proposal would be an optional system.
If there were 6 teams willing to run a tournament every other weekend utilizing weight classes and weighins, have them as open tournaments, out of state welcome, we could have a Kentucky Triple Crown Series. This still leaves 10 % invitationals for those that want, adds a series that may draw in some out of state comp bringing competition to us, have special awards for those that win 3 of the events, one of which has to be the last one. Make the date of this prior to the state tournament so it doea not deter away from that and the numbers that are needed for the arena. Still keeps within the league without hurting kentucky wrestling as a whole.
Is this something that would be considered and not deter from the association goals. If not, i will shut up til next year so me and the raiderscoach can continue our love / hate relationship.
even with set weights you could still do the 8 man brackets or round robins if you really think that`s best.
someone else mentioned the fact that even with the 10% rule you still have kids that will cut its not right but it happens.
so why are so many against set weight classes.
Set weight classes encourages weight cutting, no way around it. The evidence is overwhelming that with 10%, kids don't cut weight. We have records of kids who wrestle tournaments with set weight classes and 10%, almost always the kids weigh more for the 10% which is all the proof you need that with 10% kids wrestle their natural weight.even with set weights you could still do the 8 man brackets or round robins if you really think that`s best.
someone else mentioned the fact that even with the 10% rule you still have kids that will cut its not right but it happens.
so why are so many against set weight classes.
For those kids/parents that claim to cut weight for 10% tournaments, there isn't much we can do for them. Cutting weight for a 10% tournament makes NO sense. Furthermore, I don't believe it happens. Could it happen? Sure, there are ignorant people everywhere. Does it happen? We have seen NO evidence that it does with 10% and have seen overwhelming evidence that it does with set weights. This is not up for debate. Aside from it being common sense, we have statistical data from kids who wrestle both middle school (with set weights) and youth (with 10%).
As an association, we have essentially systematically eliminated weight cutting from youth in our state via the 10% rule. Going back to set classes gives our kids the option to cut weight. Why give them that option when it appears 100% of people involved with youth wrestling think cutting weight is bad for the sport? I think it is irresponsible to allow it, not just for the kids that cut weight, but also for the kids that don't.
The raider guys are making my point for me
!
What point is that?
weight classes at youth are a bad idea main;ly because of what parents do.. In the past few weeks training with hi level clubs in ohio u can see 5year kids that are thin allreddi cutting 2- 3 pounds it is rediculous. 2lbs may not b much but it is alot when u r 42lbs to begin. Keep it like it is.
That "most" Kentucky youth kids can't hang with the youth kids from surrounding states. Notice I said most there are the few that can. Are youth state tourney should be the major tourney these kids are working Hobson all year. But for the best youth kids it isn't that big of a deal theyd rather wrestle and win the TOC, Viper Pits, and battle for the belt(Barberton Oh) than their state championship.
That "most" Kentucky youth kids can't hang with the youth kids from surrounding states. Notice I said most there are the few that can. Are youth state tourney should be the major tourney these kids are working Hobson all year. But for the best youth kids it isn't that big of a deal theyd rather wrestle and win the TOC, Viper Pits, and battle for the belt(Barberton Oh) than their state championship.
The same could be said about our high school state tournament. There are many tournaments that teams from Kentucky attend during the year that are more difficult and/or prestigious than winning a Kentucky high school state title. The last I checked, we weigh our high school kids in and have set weight classes at high school state. I don't see the connection to having weight classes and same day weigh ins to making a tournament tougher or a "bigger deal" to the elite kids you are referring to. Now increasing the bracket size obviously makes it tougher.
We will agree to disagree I guess. I'm not saying you have to weight in the morning of just maybe the thursday or Friday before not a week or 2 prior to the tournament. Yes weight classes are by far the best way to go IMO not the 10% rule. Kentucky is the only state that Blue attends youth tournaments and they use the 10% rule. Make weight classes let the kids and their parents choose were they want to wrestle and slot them in there. Not this 10% gray area rule. This way you know the weights the kids are wrestling. But I guess it really doesn't matter. Blue will show up and wrestle regardless of the age and weight rules. I just can't see letting him miss his youth state championship tournament. But do I wish we had set weight classes and weigh ins? Of course as we all should if were not more concerned about the money.
We will agree to disagree I guess. I'm not saying you have to weight in the morning of just maybe the thursday or Friday before not a week or 2 prior to the tournament. Yes weight classes are by far the best way to go IMO not the 10% rule. Kentucky is the only state that Blue attends youth tournaments and they use the 10% rule. Make weight classes let the kids and their parents choose were they want to wrestle and slot them in there. Not this 10% gray area rule. This way you know the weights the kids are wrestling. But I guess it really doesn't matter. Blue will show up and wrestle regardless of the age and weight rules. I just can't see letting him miss his youth state championship tournament. But do I wish we had set weight classes and weigh ins? Of course as we all should if were not more concerned about the money.
"Let the kid and their parents choose where they want to wrestle and slot them in there"....this is exactly the problem. Blue is how old? Kids his age should touch a scale at his NATURAL weight and go wrestle against other kids at their NATURAL weight. A parent or a coach should have nothing to do with what weight class he should wrestle. This is EXACTLY the mindset 10% protects against.
Just because you compete at some tournaments in SE Ohio and WV that use set weights doesn't make it more competitive or better. I assure you Blue would have his hand full winning most of the tournaments we attend in Cincinnati that do use 10%. We had a middle school runner-up on our youth team at Blue's weight, that didn't win a single youth tournament across the river and went 0-2 in at least one of them. Our kid is a stud, but its a different world over there, regardless of 10% or set weight classes.
Your comment about the money is WAY off base. We could move to weight classes tomorrow and it wouldn't affect the income generated at state. I promise you our motivation isn't money. We'd rather not have been involved with the state tournament this year. The money raised was surprisingly good this year, but we don't need money for our program. We do other things to finance the club and we are in good shape.
The biggest issue I have is with the lack of weigh ins. No matter what anyone likes to think, kids do cut weight with the 10% rule. When they are weighing 7-14 days before a tourney, many kids cut for the weigh in. Then they eat whatever they want for the next week or two. A kid that weighs in at 53 could easily be 57-58 by the time they wrestle. Then he ends up in a bracket for51.5-54 and is outside the 10% limit for the smaller kids in his bracket. So there is still a benefit to cutting with the 10% rule when kids have plenty of time to gain before they wrestle.
I had both coaches and parents tell me they did this for state. There is just way too much time between the "weigh in" and the tourney.
Also, have you ever considered that kids wrestle heavier at youth events than MS because the competition is weaker. I would venture to say this would still be the same if we had set weight classes at the youth tourney. The kids that wrestle MS wouldn't see the need to stay at a lower weight because the competition is not as strong. Again I don't care about weight classes nearly as much as I do the weigh ins. There has to be a better way to do it.
I don't care about weight classes nearly as much as I do the weigh ins. There has to be a better way to do it.
I'm starting to move this way. I think it is being looked at and it might even be taken care of before next year.
After listening to a couple people 8 man brackets are not the worst thing in the world for the younger kids. Raider, I'm taking your advice we are traveling this Spring and Summer. AAU Nationals, Ohio TOC, and I think Flo Nationals is on the radar.
The biggest issue I have is with the lack of weigh ins. No matter what anyone likes to think, kids do cut weight with the 10% rule. When they are weighing 7-14 days before a tourney, many kids cut for the weigh in. Then they eat whatever they want for the next week or two. A kid that weighs in at 53 could easily be 57-58 by the time they wrestle. Then he ends up in a bracket for51.5-54 and is outside the 10% limit for the smaller kids in his bracket. So there is still a benefit to cutting with the 10% rule when kids have plenty of time to gain before they wrestle.
I had both coaches and parents tell me they did this for state. There is just way too much time between the "weigh in" and the tourney.
Also, have you ever considered that kids wrestle heavier at youth events than MS because the competition is weaker. I would venture to say this would still be the same if we had set weight classes at the youth tourney. The kids that wrestle MS wouldn't see the need to stay at a lower weight because the competition is not as strong. Again I don't care about weight classes nearly as much as I do the weigh ins. There has to be a better way to do it.
I agree 100% that the weigh ins need to be done closer to the event and standardized across the state. It is unacceptable to have teams weighing in themselves with no regional delegate and certified referees. We should have 4 satellite weigh in locations at most two days prior to the tournament.
Your example of weight cutting with 10% is certainly possible, but very unlikely. Weight cutting is almost never done to gain a weight advantage over competition. It is usually done to fit into a lineup (of set weight classes) or to either dodge or, in the case of Louden Swain, chase competition. You proved my point with the middle school comparison.
I sure hope you don't know of any 58 lb kids cutting 5 pounds for a youth wrestling tournament! That's a ton of weight for a kid that small and presumably has low body fat. No way we'd let a kid wrestle if we knew he was doing that.
I'm starting to move this way. I think it is being looked at and it might even be taken care of before next year.
After listening to a couple people 8 man brackets are not the worst thing in the world for the younger kids. Raider, I'm taking your advice we are traveling this Spring and Summer. AAU Nationals, Ohio TOC, and I think Flo Nationals is on the radar.
Awesome! Why don't you bring those studs over to the Raiders? Conner is gaining on us...we need to start recruiting!!!
"Let the kid and their parents choose where they want to wrestle and slot them in there"....this is exactly the problem. Blue is how old? Kids his age should touch a scale at his NATURAL weight and go wrestle against other kids at their NATURAL weight. A parent or a coach should have nothing to do with what weight class he should wrestle. This is EXACTLY the mindset 10% protects against.
Just because you compete at some tournaments in SE Ohio and WV that use set weights doesn't make it more competitive or better. I assure you Blue would have his hand full winning most of the tournaments we attend in Cincinnati that do use 10%. We had a middle school runner-up on our youth team at Blue's weight, that didn't win a single youth tournament across the river and went 0-2 in at least one of them. Our kid is a stud, but its a different world over there, regardless of 10% or set weight classes.
Your comment about the money is WAY off base. We could move to weight classes tomorrow and it wouldn't affect the income generated at state. I promise you our motivation isn't money. We'd rather not have been involved with the state tournament this year. The money raised was surprisingly good this year, but we don't need money for our program. We do other things to finance the club and we are in good shape.
Blue is 9. No he doesn't cut weight. He wrestles youth tournaments at the 75lb class and weights in at 71lb every weekend. So if I was going to cut him He would make 70. He is my child and for me to make decisions for not you. But I appreciate your concern.
First off we don't just wrestle in SE Ohio. We have been to Cleveland, Akron, Medina, Minerva, and many more northern tournaments were wrestling is king. Blue has placed in everyone of them. The worst he has placed this year and last is third and that was at a WV tourney in St. Albans. So dont think we just go to Chesapeake and wrestle every weekend because that's not the case at all.
Now for your Cincinnati tournaments. We have been to the court for sports tournament and a couple others in the Mason area. he has beat every kid they have threw at him. Heard, Powell, Lugman and so on. So I agree the kids are great in this area and Blue does have his hands full but he works his tail off to get better. That's why we travel 6-7 hours a weekend to wrestle in Cleveland and Akron not to mention PA and MI. You can assure your self he is wrestling the best competition he can for a 9 year old. Now is he goingto always win NO. He hasn't this year and will more than likely lose again when we go to some of these other tough tournaments were going to. He's lost his fair share and understands he's not going to always win. But does he go into a match with the mind set he's better than the kid across from him? Sure. I teach him that as I should. But will that always be the case no it will not. All I'm trying to say is this we travel and try to give him Every advantage we can. While doing this I feel the set weights and weight classes are better suited for better competition. Now am I right some think so some think not. But that's why we all have a opinion. But I dont understand why you were so snide in your remarks about my son and where or how heavy he wrestles. He is a 9 year old boy who loves wrestling and works his tail off at it. He's doing it 6 sometimes 7 days a week putting in his time and here you are trying to down play his efforts. Hopefully in the future(say 6 or 7 years from now) we can pick this conversation back up after he is atop a podium and all his hard work and sacrifice has payed off. Thanks again.
The biggest issue I have is with the lack of weigh ins. No matter what anyone likes to think, kids do cut weight with the 10% rule. When they are weighing 7-14 days before a tourney, many kids cut for the weigh in. Then they eat whatever they want for the next week or two. A kid that weighs in at 53 could easily be 57-58 by the time they wrestle. Then he ends up in a bracket for51.5-54 and is outside the 10% limit for the smaller kids in his bracket. So there is still a benefit to cutting with the 10% rule when kids have plenty of time to gain before they wrestle.
I had both coaches and parents tell me they did this for state. There is just way too much time between the "weigh in" and the tourney.
Also, have you ever considered that kids wrestle heavier at youth events than MS because the competition is weaker. I would venture to say this would still be the same if we had set weight classes at the youth tourney. The kids that wrestle MS wouldn't see the need to stay at a lower weight because the competition is not as strong. Again I don't care about weight classes nearly as much as I do the weigh ins. There has to be a better way to do it.
I would love to know the coaches who told you they allow their YOUTH kids to cut weight so I could personally tell them how stupid they are to their face. I don't even care if they are bigger and tougher than me, that would be worth taking a butt kicking for in my opinion.
"If I was going to cut him"....again you make my point. Cutting weight shouldn't be considered by a 9 year old.Blue is 9. No he doesn't cut weight. He wrestles youth tournaments at the 75lb class and weights in at 71lb every weekend. So if I was going to cut him He would make 70. He is my child and for me to make decisions for not you. But I appreciate your concern.
First off we don't just wrestle in SE Ohio. We have been to Cleveland, Akron, Medina, Minerva, and many more northern tournaments were wrestling is king. Blue has placed in everyone of them. The worst he has placed this year and last is third and that was at a WV tourney in St. Albans. So dont think we just go to Chesapeake and wrestle every weekend because that's not the case at all.
Now for your Cincinnati tournaments. We have been to the court for sports tournament and a couple others in the Mason area. he has beat every kid they have threw at him. Heard, Powell, Lugman and so on. So I agree the kids are great in this area and Blue does have his hands full but he works his tail off to get better. That's why we travel 6-7 hours a weekend to wrestle in Cleveland and Akron not to mention PA and MI. You can assure your self he is wrestling the best competition he can for a 9 year old. Now is he goingto always win NO. He hasn't this year and will more than likely lose again when we go to some of these other tough tournaments were going to. He's lost his fair share and understands he's not going to always win. But does he go into a match with the mind set he's better than the kid across from him? Sure. I teach him that as I should. But will that always be the case no it will not. All I'm trying to say is this we travel and try to give him Every advantage we can. While doing this I feel the set weights and weight classes are better suited for better competition. Now am I right some think so some think not. But that's why we all have a opinion. But I dont understand why you were so snide in your remarks about my son and where or how heavy he wrestles. He is a 9 year old boy who loves wrestling and works his tail off at it. He's doing it 6 sometimes 7 days a week putting in his time and here you are trying to down play his efforts. Hopefully in the future(say 6 or 7 years from now) we can pick this conversation back up after he is atop a podium and all his hard work and sacrifice has payed off. Thanks again.
I think it is awesome that you travel all over for competition. My point about the Cincinnati tournaments was only to point out that the competition there is about as good and organized as anywhere around, including all the other places you listed AND they use 10%. If NE Ohio changed to 10% tomorrow, would the level of competition change? Absolutely not. That's the point I tried to make to you. The format of the tournament has very little if any impact on the level of competition. You claimed those other tournaments are a "bigger deal" because they use set weight classes and I'm trying to explain to you that those other tournaments are a "bigger deal" because of the level of competition. Just like winning the Super 32 in high school which is a pre-season tournament and is formatted much different than other high school tournaments is a bigger deal than winning a Kentucky state title.
Snide remark? I didn't say anything snide about your son. How about your remark about the money?
What some are proposing we do is try and fast-forward 10 years and have 32 or 16 man brackets for state tournaments with weigh ins the day off. These parents and coaches are probably the same ones who keeps stats on their 3rd grade wrestler. I completely disagree with this notion. As far as weigh-ins and weight classes go, making any kids not in high school cut weight is a joke in my opinion. These are key developemental years for the kids not years for them to develope unhealthy means and measures to cut weight and try and get an "edge". However it is invevitable and over baring parents will always find ways to cheat the system or have their children cut weight.
My opinion would be to develope set weight classes based off the past 3 years results. That way weight classes would be set long before we get to state and it will allow kids to fit in a more natural weight class, and as far as weigh ins go make them weigh in on Monday night before state. As I mature as an adult and have a family of my own I will get my children into this great sport. As it stands now I would have no hesitation getting them involved with our youth organization. I know in the short future I will probably be coaching a youth team somewhere in this state and with discussions like we are having we are heading in the right direction. Maybe some day in the future I will be in a position like MLee 
I got one more thing to add.
Bluesdad, I know WV has very strong high school wrestling but their youth and middle school teams are not out of this world good or even that much better than KY teams. I know that your boy spends a lot of time over there, so maybe my observation is a little off but I will go on ahead with it. Over my time as a coach, I have competed against them (WV kids) in numerous tournaments and had very strong success. Several years ago Derek Wiley went to a national tournament out there in WV and finished second only losing to a kid from PA. In the champion quarters and semi's he had elementary state champs and Derek teched one and majored another. Darian Wolnitzek went undefeated out there that same year. Kids like Andy Wilson, Jacob Warwick, Trevor Thompson, Demarcus and Jermain Moore,and all the Grandstaff boys have dominated all the WV kids they competed against at TOC, Autism, and open tournaments. Ohio on the other hand is a different story all together.
Sorry if I'm a little off based with my comments, I am trying to get caught up with everything going on with the High school forum. Oh and I'm watching the UC/UL game on ESPN.
Money is money my son is blood. Not sure if you have children but I'm sure you wouldn't want someone down playing there accomplishments. That's sort of what ya did in Antoine and about way by saying just SE Ohio and some WV tourney. Well thats how it was taken. If it wasn't meant that way I apologize i took it that way. He is my child and I will defend him if i feel he is threatened.I also want to say the money comment was a lil over board and I apologize for that also.
But again I said if I was going to I didn't say I have. But I have spoken to one of the top pediatricians in the nation from the Cleveland clinic regarding Blue on many different subjects. Those I will keep private. But for you to think I would do anything that may hurt my son is ludicrous. You don't know me and if you did you would know exactly what cautions are taken with Blue and his health. There's more there than meets the eye so I have to be careful. But you need not worry he is taken well care off on this end and nothing will jeopardize that.
What some are proposing we do is try and fast-forward 10 years and have 32 or 16 man brackets for state tournaments with weigh ins the day off. These parents and coaches are probably the same ones who keeps stats on their 3rd grade wrestler. I completely disagree with this notion. As far as weigh-ins and weight classes go, making any kids not in high school cut weight is a joke in my opinion. These are key developemental years for the kids not years for them to develope unhealthy means and measures to cut weight and try and get an "edge". However it is invevitable and over baring parents will always find ways to cheat the system or have their children cut weight.
My opinion would be to develope set weight classes based off the past 3 years results. That way weight classes would be set long before we get to state and it will allow kids to fit in a more natural weight class, and as far as weigh ins go make them weigh in on Monday night before state. As I mature as an adult and have a family of my own I will get my children into this great sport. As it stands now I would have no hesitation getting them involved with our youth organization. I know in the short future I will probably be coaching a youth team somewhere in this state and with discussions like we are having we are heading in the right direction. Maybe some day in the future I will be in a position like MLee
I got one more thing to add.
Bluesdad, I know WV has very strong high school wrestling but their youth and middle school teams are not out of this world good or even that much better than KY teams. I know that your boy spends a lot of time over there, so maybe my observation is a little off but I will go on ahead with it. Over my time as a coach, I have competed against them (WV kids) in numerous tournaments and had very strong success. Several years ago Derek Wiley went to a national tournament out there in WV and finished second only losing to a kid from PA. In the champion quarters and semi's he had elementary state champs and Derek teched one and majored another. Darian Wolnitzek went undefeated out there that same year. Kids like Andy Wilson, Jacob Warwick, Trevor Thompson, Demarcus and Jermain Moore,and all the Grandstaff boys have dominated all the WV kids they competed against at TOC, Autism, and open tournaments. Ohio on the other hand is a different story all together.
Sorry if I'm a little off based with my comments, I am trying to get caught up with everything going on with the High school forum. Oh and I'm watching the UC/UL game on ESPN.
Why are you just singling out WV wrestling. Blue spends 70% of his time in northern OH probably 20% in WV 5% in PA and MI and 5% in KY. But I say this he has wrestled a lot of the top kids in Ohio- Heard, Powell, Lugman, Ray, Gessler, White, Kohler, Wiseman and Kellar. He's wrestled most of the top 10U kids in OH and has beat them all. But now Kellar and Wiseman has beat him also but it was last year when he was 8 and wrestled up in age. The only one he hasn't wrestled that I think could and probably would beat him unless he wrestled flawless beat is Suber they just haven't meet up yet. But remember all these kids I'm mentioning are 10 all of them and Blue is 9. This year in youth he's lost one match to a WV kid. Derek Raike beat him 11-10 it was a outstanding match back and forth. So WV youth wrestling isn't as bad as you think right now. Let me say this as you all know we have wrestled kids from all over in more than 5 states. The best kid in the 10 group at 70lbs is from WV his name is Ian Irazarry. The kid is great wished Blue would've meet up with him but there are always in different brackets because of weight. But I think he beats Blue if they wrestle like 6-3 or something similar to that. One more name from WV to throw at ya Josh Humpries. He is a 12 year old 85lb monster. You will here his name in the big time in a few years. While I agree OH is a lot better over all but WV isn't as bad as you think.
I would love to know the coaches who told you they allow their YOUTH kids to cut weight so I could personally tell them how stupid they are to their face. I don't even care if they are bigger and tougher than me, that would be worth taking a butt kicking for in my opinion.
They are mostly coaches that are having their own sons do it and parents on the same teams that are following suit. And I do understand the typical reasons for weight cutting when you have weight classes but we do not. It doesn't take people long to figure out how to gain any perceived competitive edge possible. Cutting for weigh ins that are several days before a tourney and then putting pounds back on is one way to do that.
I have seen several weight challenges this season, almost everyone the kid was over by a few pounds but there were no repercussions because he weighed in 5 days earlier, after a tough practice, ect... Like I said, it doesn't take people long to find a way around the rules. Maybe they aren't lying about their weights at weigh ins; they are just cutting for them. It is happening.
I know you can't possibly eliminate all cheating but you can put some checks in place. We got some flack before our tourney for checking weights and charging a rebracket fee. We told teams about it ahead of time and gave a one pound allowance. We didn't have to rebracket any kids. Ironically, some of those same kids whose weights we checked on 2/2 wrestled 3-5 pounds lighter on 2/9 and 2/10 at their regionals (based on the weights that were submitted for the state tourney).
I think having official weigh ins a day or two prior to state is a good idea. I would also like to see other tourneys implement weight checks the day of their event. We ask kids to get there at least an hour early. Set up a couple scales, have a couple workers with spreadsheets with submitted weights, make the changes necessary - they will be minimal once people realize that they can't cheat the system.
Gene, I love ya, you know that, but we disagree. I care very little about having a TRUE state YOUTH champion. If my son, Chase, never wins a youth tournament and wins the high school state title, I am totally cool with that. That we have kids who win state titles in Ky and can't place in the WV tournaments (and that happens a lot) does not matter to me at all. They are kids and who really cares. Because a kid is really good at youth does that automatically mean he is going to be a great high school wrestler? I don't have the numbers but I doubt it. I believe we raise the competition level higher by getting more kids out wrestling. We have a lot of good athletes in Kentucky, and particularly eastern Kentucky, that we cannot get to the wrestling mat because they are hung up on basketball. We get more kids out, we raise our competition level. I believe one way to get more kids out is to have a lot of kids placing in what is perceived by these kids and these communities as big tournaments. These kids get their picture in the local papers and all of a sudden a couple of his buddies, who may be better athletes, decide they want their picture in the paper with a medal around their neck. Makes all the sense in the world to me. I just don't believe bigger brackets equals better competition.JD IMO the problem is we don't have true state champions for the youth like other states and the weight is being over blown in some cases. Some of the kids in Kentucky that win youth state couldn't go to open youth tourneys in OH or WV and even place in them. Are youth tournament needs to be addressed so our youth kids will get to be better wrestlers.
I understand having a tournament were everyone can wrestle regardless. Let's call it the Novice state tourney. But then let's also have one that these kids have to qualify for. Saying this it looks like the Ky TOC is doing just that. I just wished our state tournament excited our youth kids to go wrestle in. I believe the state tournament should be the tourney these kids strive to win and bust their tail to be able to call their selfs state champions. Right now it's just like another tournament and not a huge deal to most of the. But I do love the venue it's in and Blue really loves doing the face offs. So regardless of the setup of state Blue will be there the next 3 years until his eligibility runs out.
P.S.
JD u da man and I luv ya 2 man
It sounds like the main concern is weigh-ins. Is it possible to do remote weigh-ins for regionals and have a weigh-out at regionals just like we did at state and use those numbers for the state tournament. I know this only takes care of the first 4 placers the teams would have to make sure the other kids hit the scale before they left. If we keep everyone in their singlet and wrestling shoes everyone will be on the same level.
I like the idea of 2 tournaments one novice one elite it would make for better match ups.
And i know everyone want`s the sport to grow. But i would just hate to see what is the hardest sport at any age get turned into a watered down version of what it should be. Like so many other youth sports have where they give out trophies or medals for just showing up!
In my opinion we are not near the point that we need to separate elite from novice. So what if 1 of 5-8 kids thinks he's a state champ? That's what grows the sport. The competition increases soon enough in this sport as the kids near middle school.
We need to enforce weighins and birth certificate checks.
No Steder, I think you are wrong. I would venture to say that weight classes and weigh-ins would actually hurt some kids chances of being called a state champion - so not to stroke my ego. But on numerous occassions when a 65 pound kid is in a bracket with a 54 pound kid because there was a lie on a weigh in sheet - it is now dangerous for the 54 pounder, regardless of who the parent is.
All can say it does not happen, but it does, it has, and it will continue.
Have an opinion without attacking others. There are facts that point both ways, but if you are weighing in at a neutral site, all kids get an equal chance. that is why wrestling was created with weigh-ins and weight classes.
I can say that the only reason anyone wants to not have weight classes is so they have a better chance for their kid to win a state championship. Probably not a 100% true statement - but some facts to that.
So again - like many others on this site- voice your opinion, not making false facts about others and their intentions.
This is a simple fix with a little work from the people putting on the meets. All you have to do is use Track and have your weigh-ins as close to the meet as possible and faxed or emailed to meet location. Then you can build your brackets and verify all wrestlers weights and age at check in before meet. Yes this will take some time but with alittle planning it could flow easy and rather quickly. You could set it up with a couple different scales and do by name by age or how you think works best. Track makes it very easy to change brackets if something has changed or if someone lied. If you find a pattern with some team or school they can be disallowed to compete. Parents will put a stop to the coach who is doing this pretty quick after showing up to a meet and their kid not being able to wrestle. Also if you have your weigh-ins 2 weeks in advance of the meet things are going to change because these are kids and are going to grow but there should not be a big difference. This is just my opinion and sorry for being so long.
well put kynovice but from what i`ve read we`ll never be able to convice the die hard 10% guy`s
I am not 100% sure about the 10% rule, but from what i understand you can set it up anyway you want. I don't know if they have predetermined values or if you enter your own. I have not personally setup a meet for brackets but the meets we have been to that use track make it so much easier for everyone involved. You can use an app on your phone to follow your whole team to know when and where everyone is supposed to be and follow the brackets and team scores. There is more info at trackwrestling.com that can answer more of your questions.
I would assume you can accommodate whatever type of brackets you want through track. I agree with 85. We should consider using track for youth state.
I would like to see Track used during the year. Its neat to see how it keeps stats on all the kids.
No Steder, I think you are wrong. I would venture to say that weight classes and weigh-ins would actually hurt some kids chances of being called a state champion - so not to stroke my ego. But on numerous occassions when a 65 pound kid is in a bracket with a 54 pound kid because there was a lie on a weigh in sheet - it is now dangerous for the 54 pounder, regardless of who the parent is.
All can say it does not happen, but it does, it has, and it will continue.
Have an opinion without attacking others. There are facts that point both ways, but if you are weighing in at a neutral site, all kids get an equal chance. that is why wrestling was created with weigh-ins and weight classes.
I can say that the only reason anyone wants to not have weight classes is so they have a better chance for their kid to win a state championship. Probably not a 100% true statement - but some facts to that.
So again - like many others on this site- voice your opinion, not making false facts about others and their intentions.
There are two topics being discussed here: weigh ins and weight classes. I don't think anyone has said they don't want weigh ins. It is obvious that we need to do a better job at standardizing the weigh ins across the state and doing them closer to the events.
I completely disagree with your comment about people not wanting weight classes so their kid has a better chance at winning state. In fact, there have been many people I've talked to and have seen on these boards who oppose weight classes at youth and you are the only person I've ever heard make that claim. I don't have any kids that wrestle (two daughters) and I am 100% against having weight classes at the youth level. You claim you have some "facts to that", I am very curious what those facts are. I'm not trying to start a battle with you, but you are preaching to people about voicing their opinion and not making false facts. I agree, so please share with us your facts about this issue.
There are two topics being discussed here: weigh ins and weight classes. I don't think anyone has said they don't want weigh ins. It is obvious that we need to do a better job at standardizing the weigh ins across the state and doing them closer to the events.
I completely disagree with your comment about people not wanting weight classes so their kid has a better chance at winning state. In fact, there have been many people I've talked to and have seen on these boards who oppose weight classes at youth and you are the only person I've ever heard make that claim. I don't have any kids that wrestle (two daughters) and I am 100% against having weight classes at the youth level. You claim you have some "facts to that", I am very curious what those facts are. I'm not trying to start a battle with you, but you are preaching to people about voicing their opinion and not making false facts. I agree, so please share with us your facts about this issue.
Facts to what, that people cut weight in the 10% system. I did weigh-ins for the south part of the region and watched the kids come in from other teams in sweatsuits with sweat on their kids. I talked to parents that brought their kids in, if you ask around, they will tell you. Yes you don't know where you will end up in a 10% weight class, but if you normally weigh 57, but weigh in at 52 or 53 - the most you can be in is a 58.8 weight class. You are now within a pound of being biggest. Weigh in at natural weight of 57 and yo can now be in a 62.7 weight class and you are the smallest. Does it happen with all...no. Does it happen... Yes. I know the parents that do it or have done it for tournaments. Not saying it is right, but you have made the statement that the 10% rule has systematically removed weight cutting. I will not use names on here because that is parent business. You have the results / facts in your hand from the state tournament for medal weigh-ins, where some kids were 6 pounds heavier at medals than the day they weighed in. I guarantee you some of those kids on that list I weighed in and wrote what the scale said that day.
I don't want to argue with you about it either. I want each of us to agree we disagree. I think we can, as a state, provide both types of tournaments and help build wrestling together. Your system for introducing new kids and growing numbers - I said before that there is probably alot of truths to what you say. I have an idea that I would like to go forward with that will bring in out of state competition, give our advanced wrestlers some higher goals, give those that want weight classes / weigh in tournaments an option.
I think it can work if there is not a need to try to destroy the other.
And yes I would use track for everything and it will do madison weight systems (AKA the 10% rule). I have alot of experience with track. It would also eliminate hours of one guy punching names in a bracket, each team can have an admin account where they input their own kids, weigh ins could be a breeze. Only down fall is the internet access that is required. I use my phone as a hotspot and have not blown past usage yet, but usually dont run multiples in a month. I am doing it this month though.
Facts to what, that people cut weight in the 10% system. I did weigh-ins for the south part of the region and watched the kids come in from other teams in sweatsuits with sweat on their kids. I talked to parents that brought their kids in, if you ask around, they will tell you. Yes you don't know where you will end up in a 10% weight class, but if you normally weigh 57, but weigh in at 52 or 53 - the most you can be in is a 58.8 weight class. You are now within a pound of being biggest. Weigh in at natural weight of 57 and yo can now be in a 62.7 weight class and you are the smallest. Does it happen with all...no. Does it happen... Yes. I know the parents that do it or have done it for tournaments. Not saying it is right, but you have made the statement that the 10% rule has systematically removed weight cutting. I will not use names on here because that is parent business. You have the results / facts in your hand from the state tournament for medal weigh-ins, where some kids were 6 pounds heavier at medals than the day they weighed in. I guarantee you some of those kids on that list I weighed in and wrote what the scale said that day.
I don't want to argue with you about it either. I want each of us to agree we disagree. I think we can, as a state, provide both types of tournaments and help build wrestling together. Your system for introducing new kids and growing numbers - I said before that there is probably alot of truths to what you say. I have an idea that I would like to go forward with that will bring in out of state competition, give our advanced wrestlers some higher goals, give those that want weight classes / weigh in tournaments an option.
I think it can work if there is not a need to try to destroy the other.
You claimed there are some facts to that people want 10% to help their kids win a youth state tournament. I don't see the connection.
Weight cutting at 10% is significantly less than with weight classes. I have accepted based on some of the posts on here that it may still happen with 10% in some areas, but we don't see it at all and we are confident 10% helped get rid if it. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
The comment you are wanting facts to was an example of a blind assumption to Steder saying that I could blindly make assumptions as he has said that others only want weight classes for their own parent ego. Get it now! Both comments don't carry water because they are more opinion based comments.
As far as cutting for 10%, one of your coaches was sharing the results of the medal weigh-ins with a parent from another team at a Ryle practice or open mat - not sure of the details. Were there kids heavier on tournament day than the weight submitted 10 days prior?
The comment you are wanting facts to was an example of a blind assumption to Steder saying that I could blindly make assumptions as he has said that others only want weight classes for their own parent ego. Get it now! Both comments don't carry water because they are more opinion based comments.
As far as cutting for 10%, one of your coaches was sharing the results of the medal weigh-ins with a parent from another team at a Ryle practice or open mat - not sure of the details. Were there kids heavier on tournament day than the weight submitted 10 days prior?
So you were being sarcastic and giving opinions at the same time as you were telling everyone else to only posts facts...got it.
So you were being sarcastic and giving opinions at the same time as you were telling everyone else to only posts facts...got it.
Yes and it was obvious that is what I was doing. See the bold print from the quote.
I can say that the only reason anyone wants to not have weight classes is so they have a better chance for their kid to win a state championship. Probably not a 100% true statement - but some facts to that.
Take the entire statement and place it in the context of the conversation, not just pick and choose a partial statement to attempt to attack a person.
I'll weigh in on this topic LOL! It's wrestling, there are factors outside of every coaches control. In my opinion, wrestling is supposed to have set weight classes. It is also my opinion that no matter what you do, kids are going to cut weight. A kid in tune with what's going on will figure out that the high school kid he looks up to cuts weight, so should he. Is what it is. My son has wrestled for 6 years. I let him make some of his own decsions. If he wants to cut 3-4 pounds and miss a dinner on Friday night, that's up to him. Blast me if you want, just telling the truth, which a lot of people on here have a hard time doing. Oooops, that last statement was an opinion, not a fact. Wink wink.
This is a simple fix with a little work from the people putting on the meets. All you have to do is use Track and have your weigh-ins as close to the meet as possible and faxed or emailed to meet location. Then you can build your brackets and verify all wrestlers weights and age at check in before meet. Yes this will take some time but with alittle planning it could flow easy and rather quickly. You could set it up with a couple different scales and do by name by age or how you think works best. Track makes it very easy to change brackets if something has changed or if someone lied. If you find a pattern with some team or school they can be disallowed to compete. Parents will put a stop to the coach who is doing this pretty quick after showing up to a meet and their kid not being able to wrestle. Also if you have your weigh-ins 2 weeks in advance of the meet things are going to change because these are kids and are going to grow but there should not be a big difference. This is just my opinion and sorry for being so long.
Weighins with track is very easy. We input our weighins into trackwrestling as each kid physically steps on the scale. There is no need to fax or email the weights because you type them into track and its done. Use the dashboard and the tournament results are immediate also. Have the results for the KY Youth State Tournament been posted yet?
You could do the weigh-ins and if you are worried about having "honest" weigh-ins then just have each school/club have present another represenative from another school/club while doing the weigh-ins along skin check with an official. You could do it a few days before state just like you do for regions. But instead of having each team show up at the same time and wait for their entire team to show up just let the kids weigh-in as they get there or have a set time for each team. This way we know each kid has at least kept at that weight for a few weeks instead of doing a drastic weight-cut and then bulking up again. As far as set weight classes again it becomes such a big difference between brackets. So unless KY is going to start doing like OH youth does and make kids qualify at Regionals then you would have such a huge variance between brackets. I agree with MLee before we go changing things we need to see the cold hard facts and #'s before you start something new. And get it approved with a quorum and implemented and communicate it in a proper amount of time not at the last minute.
I agree 100% that the weigh ins need to be done closer to the event and standardized across the state. It is unacceptable to have teams weighing in themselves with no regional delegate and certified referees. We should have 4 satellite weigh in locations at most two days prior to the tournament.
Your example of weight cutting with 10% is certainly possible, but very unlikely. Weight cutting is almost never done to gain a weight advantage over competition. It is usually done to fit into a lineup (of set weight classes) or to either dodge or, in the case of Louden Swain, chase competition. You proved my point with the middle school comparison.
I sure hope you don't know of any 58 lb kids cutting 5 pounds for a youth wrestling tournament! That's a ton of weight for a kid that small and presumably has low body fat. No way we'd let a kid wrestle if we knew he was doing that.
Awesome! Why don't you bring those studs over to the Raiders? Conner is gaining on us...we need to start recruiting!!!
You are not taking our Cougars Raidercoach!!!!
Awesome! Why don't you bring those studs over to the Raiders? Conner is gaining on us...we need to start recruiting!!! 
What are your "some facts to that"? I don't believe you have ANY facts to that statement. You preach to people about only stating facts, yet you post this accusatory OPINION in the same post.Yes and it was obvious that is what I was doing. See the bold print from the quote.
I can say that the only reason anyone wants to not have weight classes is so they have a better chance for their kid to win a state championship. Probably not a 100% true statement - but some facts to that.
Take the entire statement and place it in the context of the conversation, not just pick and choose a partial statement to attempt to attack a person.
Zaniac, if you are talking about the No-Ox Belt series, the schoolboy division will wrestle in the morning session. If your are not talking about the belt series never mind. The original flier was wrong.
Zaniac, if you are talking about the No-Ox Belt series, the schoolboy division will wrestle in the morning session. If your are not talking about the belt series never mind. The original flier was wrong.
Yes Im a moron... and thanks for the quick reply!
What are your "some facts to that"? I don't believe you have ANY facts to that statement. You preach to people about only stating facts, yet you post this accusatory OPINION in the same post.
"Probably some facts to that" - these are posts that very much elude to the probably that were made in this forum alone.
March 3 @ 1038 pm - I think it is pretty cool to have so many state champs and so many state place winners. I think it really encourages the kids to continue wrestling if the go to state and place.
March 4 @ 627 am - I have no issues w/ handing out more medals to our youth kid
March 4 @ 805 am - most kids and families love our state tournament the way it is now.\
March 4 @ 1002 pm - I believe one way to get more kids out is to have a lot of kids placing in what is perceived by these kids and these communities as big tournaments.
And i don't have a problem with any of their opinions. Just mine and some others opinions differ.
You just listed a few people's opinions about ONE thing they like about our state tournament. You claimed you had facts that this is the ONLY reason why some people would want to have 10%. Again, you don't have any facts supporting that anyone ONLY wants 10% so their kid can have an easier state tournament. There is a huge difference in what you are concluding and what these posts you are quoting are stating."Probably some facts to that" - these are posts that very much elude to the probably that were made in this forum alone.
March 3 @ 1038 pm - I think it is pretty cool to have so many state champs and so many state place winners. I think it really encourages the kids to continue wrestling if the go to state and place.
March 4 @ 627 am - I have no issues w/ handing out more medals to our youth kid
March 4 @ 805 am - most kids and families love our state tournament the way it is now.\
March 4 @ 1002 pm - I believe one way to get more kids out is to have a lot of kids placing in what is perceived by these kids and these communities as big tournaments.
And i don't have a problem with any of their opinions. Just mine and some others opinions differ.
I am in the camp that believe the more state qualifiers, placers, etc. the more interest our sport will have. However, my reason for liking 10% rule has nothing to do with making the state tournament easier for kids to win state. Furthermore, I don't think you can even conclude 10% makes a bracket easier or harder. The only thing that would make the brackets tougher is to make them bigger, which you could still do with 10%.
The Kentucky Youth Tournament of Champions is available for registration on trackwrestling.
It is set-up with USA weight classes. Depending on the number of wrestlers it may move to the 10% and brackets may go into a round robin.
Let's be flexible, work together and do whatever needs to be done to promote our sport and give kids opportunities.
Remote weigh-ins so far include only:
Trinity on March 28 from 5:30 - 7:00PM
St Xaiver on March 28, from 5:30 - 7:00PM
Taylor County HS on March 28, 6:00PM
Who else can step up?
I could probably have one from Johnson Central but it would only have one kid at it...Blue...lol I don't know of any other kid from the eastern part of the state attending. We may have a couple more but I doubt it.
Bluesdad, what happened to David W from Johnson Central? He was in my sons weight class last year and he's been looking for him all year.
He moved back to Ohio but I look forhim to be back maybe next year.
I watched your son last weekend he and Blue were on the same mat. He's a pretty impressive lil guy.
Thanks. He was really hoping to wrestle with David. He wanted to use that as a measuring stick for how much he has improved.
We are trying to decide between the last belt series and AAU Nationals. He just doesn't have enough kids in his bracket to get the pins he needs.
That's the same thing I'm trying to decide with Blue. I know Blue and your son are tied in points but 1 pin behind. I'd love for Blue to be able to make 70 or the Hobbes I think is his name from Larue kid to bump up( he looks like a big 70 anyway) so they can wrestle. Blue weights about 73lbs and I won't cut him. But he has been sick since last Thursday with a stomach virus that is making him light. I know Blue has had 8 and 6 in his bracket the last 2 weeks. If he can get 3 matches I think he can pull it off but who knows. it's actually closer for us to go to Kingsport also so I've got a tough decision.
Yeah David is a tough lil wrestler. He was Blues partner every day Blues first 2 years he wrestled. Blues just always been a little big for David strength wise.
Blaine is also considering bumping up 3 weight classes to 70, but that is his friend. He's just not that cut throat yet. He will most likely only have one other kid in his bracket this week so he'd have to bump to stay in the running.
We will see.
Blue wrestled him last year and pinned him. But I'd say throw em all in pile and see who comes out on top ...lol
Uh oh the post police is here..lol. I was ask a question and it spontaneously grew into a few responses that didn't hurt anything. But there always has to be one in every thread I guess.
Thanks for playing along it makes me feel great. I still think we need set weight classes and weight ins.
hey right there with you i was hoping enough were in favor of it they might change things before next season
Me to but I don't think Ky will change their youth tournament set up for some reason.
Weigh ins are a must. I don't know if they have to be the day of the tournament, but certainly closer to the event and with officials.
Until someone comes up with a solution that fixes the log jams at many weights while leaving others half full, I don't think weight classes make sense without qualifying tournaments. Qualifying tournaments creates many other logistical problems that no one has solved. Then we have the weight cutting issue that everyone seems split on. Seems like we'd be messing up a good thing for what benefit?
Weight cutting happens regardless of set up of the tournament. If you think the 10% rule cuts out cutting your wrong.
Log jams what log jams. Blue has wrestled at I'm going to say between 80 and 100 tournaments and I have never seen a log jam at weight ins. I've seen some at high school tourneys but never in youth never.
10% drastically reduces weight cutting. I'm done arguing with you about it. I can present overwhelming evidence with years of weigh ins by our youth/middle kids and it is obvious: kids cut weight much more with fixed weights.Weight cutting happens regardless of set up of the tournament. If you think the 10% rule cuts out cutting your wrong.
Log jams what log jams. Blue has wrestled at I'm going to say between 80 and 100 tournaments and I have never seen a log jam at weight ins. I've seen some at high school tourneys but never in youth never.
I don't care how many tournaments you have been to. We have near 1000 kids at our state tournament. If we had weight classes there is NO way you could have fixed weight classes without log jams. We've ran the numbers over and over using USA wrestling weights and you have some weights with 30+ kids. So you would have to have 2 brackets at many weights. If you have to do that, what's the point? You are essentially doing what 10% already does for us: distributing the participants so every bracket is full while maintaining a manageable number per bracket. Many have looked at it and NO ONE has come up with a solution to this problem without: 1) having qualifying tournaments or 2) making multiple brackets at the crowded weight classes. I'd argue, if you have to have multiple 65lb, 70lb, 75lb brackets, are you really determining a state champion at these weights? Obviously not.
Many of you are so obsessed with making our youth state more prestigious by making these changes. I have news for you: the kids love the tournament as it is and there is nothing we can do to make winning a Kentucky youth state title prestigious. The only way the kids would have a negative feeling about our state tournament is if the parent or coach was critical of it. We've coached hundreds if not thousands of kids that went to our state tournament and we've never heard a bad thing from a kid or a parent.
You make these comments like your God of Ky wrestling. Let me make a bold statement here! Your not. I'm sure you've put a lot of time and love the sport but so have a lot of us.
You say no way. How do you know if you've not tried it. As long as you have weight ins 2 weeks prior or later you will have more people lying about weights. It happens. Not with everyone but some. If you weight in the night prior or that morning it takes all the guessing out of it. I know your from the northern part of the state and know all and all us eastern guys don't know a thing. Why I wonder how weve got enough sense to put our shoes on the right feet.
No all the kids don't love it. It's a fact they don't. Do many of the kids that aren't skilled enough right now to win a true state championship love it? Sure they do. Our state championship should be about awarding these kids that put day in and day out in the wrestling room working their tails off to win a state championship. So it's ok to award these kids that practice 1 day a week and not the ones that are winning state titles in high school. It boggles my mind I don't get it and never will.
Also I'm done arguing with you to. But I don't remembering arguing with you about it in the first place. But so be it.
You make these comments like your God of Ky wrestling. Let me make a bold statement here! Your not. I'm sure you've put a lot of time and love the sport but so have a lot of us.
You say no way. How do you know if you've not tried it. As long as you have weight ins 2 weeks prior or later you will have more people lying about weights. It happens. Not with everyone but some. If you weight in the night prior or that morning it takes all the guessing out of it. I know your from the northern part of the state and know all and all us eastern guys don't know a thing. Why I wonder how weve got enough sense to put our shoes on the right feet.
No all the kids don't love it. It's a fact they don't. Do many of the kids that aren't skilled enough right now to win a true state championship love it? Sure they do. Our state championship should be about awarding these kids that put day in and day out in the wrestling room working their tails off to win a state championship. So it's ok to award these kids that practice 1 day a week and not the ones that are winning state titles in high school. It boggles my mind I don't get it and never will.
Also I'm done arguing with you to. But I don't remembering arguing with you about it in the first place. But so be it.
You are showing your ignorance when you say we haven't tried set weight classes. You do know we had set weight classes and changed to 10% because of all the same issues I listed..right? I don't know you, but I suspect your experience in this sport is limited to the few years your son has wrestled. I say that because it wasn't very long ago we had weight classes at youth and the biggest reason we went to 10% was to help with the brackets...which 10% has tremendously helped with. Furthermore, we have the weights of every kid that weighed in at the state tournament the last few years. We used those weights to analyze how our state tournament brackets would look using USA wrestling weight classes. The results were ugly. Just like I said before, we had MANY weight classes with way too many kids in the bracket. The ONLY solution to this is to either have a qualifying tournament or to split those brackets into two or three. To say we haven't looked at this or tried it is IGNORANT. It has been looked at many times the same results...it doesn't work. You could argue for having a qualifying tournament to reduce the participants at state so we don't have as many issues with some brackets. But then you would take our state tournament from 1000 to 500 and from talking with people in the know, would likely force it out of Alltech.
I am 100% in agreement with you over the weigh ins. I've never said anything other than we need to have them closer to the tournament. However, this will create some logistical challenges, but I'm sure they can be worked out.
"No all the kids don't love it. It's a fact they don't." The last I checked, I help coach the largest youth team in the state. Hence, I have a bit bigger sample than you, who I believe doesn't coach anyone other than maybe your own son. Our kids love our state tournament..no question. It is all about attitude from the coaches and parents. If you go into it saying, "this tournament sucks because they don't have weight classes" then I'm sure the kids will feel the same way. Kids are simple creatures; give them a cool spotlight, a cool venue, and a big shiny medal and they are pumped up. Our kids get to experience the high school finals the night before and wrestle in the same venue the next day. That is the coolest thing about our state tournament. How many other states do that? I don't know of any other states that pull that off. Anyone that wants to change that is out of their mind.
I don't know where you got that I have bias against eastern ky. I live in NKY, but work in Lexington and Eastern Ky. I have many friends in Morehead, Pikeville, Paintsville...all over. I spend at least 2 days a week driving up and down the Bluegrass Parkway. I love that part of the state. We can have a difference of opinion and be passionate about it, but there is no reason to attack me personally. I've never claimed to be the God of KY wrestling. I've told you before, I respect the passion and dedication you have for your son.
I'll end my rant with what I feel the most passionate about. Weight cutting in our sport has historically been a dirty little secret that everyone knew happened, but no one ever admitted to, at least at the youth level. I know I am on the right side of the weight cutting debate because there hasn't been ONE person stand up and say "I think it is okay for my 7 year old to cut weight". No one will admit that they allow their kid or they encourage the team they coach to cut weight....yet we all know kids and teams that do it. I feel that needs to end and it goes way beyond just controlling your own kids. I think if anyone is in position of influence with our association, they need to do all they can to prevent/reduce weight cutting. I don't care if it is 1lb for an 8 year old...it is bad for the kid and bad for our sport. Why do they govern weight cutting in high school and college with tests to prevent dangerous weight cutting? They do it to protect the kids from doing what we know they would do if we didn't have the tests. Does it work 100% of the time? Absolutely not. I cheated my hydration test in college. However, we can't ignore the facts that if you have weight classes and can't regulate the weight cutting (we can't even get weigh ins done correctly) then the 10% rule is the best tool we have. Is it perfect? Apparently not, but to do nothing is irresponsible. So for people to say "well 10% doesn't eliminate weight cutting", they are missing the point that it does drastically reduce it and that can be proven. If you guys are hell bent on making the state tournament harder, just double the bracket size and keep 10%. You would have 16 man brackets and could place the top 6. I assure you that with 16 man brackets, we will have stiff competition at every weight. I'm not 100% for this, but it is a way better idea than going back to the stone ages of weight classes.
My experience with Ky wrestling is subject to the last 3 years since Blue has started wrestling.
It's not about making the tournament harder. Blues bracket at state had 2 kids that won state in it other than his self. So brackets were alot easier than that. It's about making it have qualified wrestlers in all brackets top to bottom.
I'm glad to learn you like our part of the state. I only state the other because it seems you will never listen to folks from our part of the state. If we ever have a suggestion it seems it's thrown down with without any thought. I don't you you either but I would like to get to know you so I wouldn't have all these miss consumptions about you. I feel we have gotten off on the wrong foot. But I believe we both want what's best for all the kids in the state and are passion is coming through.
I don't want to get in the middle of an argument because i am in the first year of wrestling with my son and this is all new to me. My son has wrestled in both the 10% and weight class and i personally like the 10%. He has wrestled in 3 different states and the only time we had any problems was in the weight class brackets it was very noticeable that some of those kids were cutting weight.
With this being the State Tournament and so many people having trouble with weigh-ins why can't the association do the weigh-ins at the clubs or schools. You could have a set date that anyone who plans to attend must register by and supply the dates and times of their practices so the weigh-ins would be a surprise. Then you could hire a non-bias company or members of the association go do the weigh-ins and verify age. You may have to go up on the entry fee a little to cover cost. Anyone who was missed could pay extra and weigh in the night before or that mourning on a case by case not a whole team. This would be a lot of work to get across the state but no one should complain ( I know someone would) about a certain coach or club not using the correct weight since it would be out of their hands. You could also do random weigh-ins at check in to verify.
As for the Youth State Tournament i think it was great and my son had a great time the night before and the day of the tournament. I think he called it beast. From reading the post on here i think by the time the State meet comes around the parents have really gotten keyed up for their kids and want it to be more than what it is. Yes some of the kids are really good and work really hard to get here and don't get much competition and i know this is supposed to be for the State. These are kids you don't even know if the kid is thinking about wrestling when he gets on the mat(he could be thinking WWE) so you may not get his/her best effort. Some of your best wrestlers may not even come because its to far for them to travel or they don't have the money. So lets let them be kids and enjoy this and be happy for them if you have a State Champ or if they didn't win a match. Heaven knows as they get older the fun will be gone and we will be putting the pressure on them when they get to middle and high school. If you want more competition for your kid there always seem to be a tournament going on some where with some good wrestlers or wrestle your kid up in middle school. I like the idea of the T.O.C. with the qualifiers, but think it should be closer to the State meet.
the day before or morning of would be great for weigh ins 10% or not.
but 2 weeks before & teams doing weigh ins their self no
weigh-ins are a must a few days before and having coaches from each team there during the entire weigh-in process along with an official, or maybe even certified trainer to verify all weights.
having the weigh-ins using the cross-over method may work also. That would mean that no wrestler can weigh-in at their own club, school, county. Set up a time in each "district" area as the weigh-in site and have a rep from each team present along with the official/trainer to check all birth-certs, forms, weight, skin check. I know it may be hard with some counties being larger than others but if we know ahead of time then it can all be scheduled and set up where no 1 person,coach, school, team, or club is in charge therefore you eliminate more chances of the cheating on weights. Example would be something like Boone Co. clubs/teams go to a Campbell Co. site, and Campbell Co. goes to a Kenton Co. site, and Kenton Co. goes to a Boone site. Again I'm not sure if that would be feasible just throwing it out there as a possible answer.
Face-off have to stay for these kids I have heard nothing but kids year after year telling all the new kids that come on the team about how great it is when the drop the lights at state and get put in the spotlight! And I thank GOD for that!!!
Since moving here and wrestling my whole life and now my son is starting . This is the only state I have been that doesn't have weigh ins and set weight classes. Usually get a pound allowance at state since kids grow over the season
It's not about the cutting of weight. But even at the youth level a wrestler should have disciplined weight management